The 3 Paths of Spiritual Purification To Go From Your HEAD To Your HEART | Paramahamsa Vishwananda

True happiness isn't found in things or experiences; it's a deep, lasting satisfaction that comes from within.

People think that life just happened randomly; however, it can't be random. At the age of 14, I experienced something that changed my life itself. I sat down to meditate, and I left my body. For three days, I was in the state of zadi. Before that, I had heard about Mahar Babaji. He looked into my eyes and revealed that all this time, it was on him.

Everybody is searching for one thing, which is happiness. We think that something will make us happy, but there is a part of us that is still not satisfied. This is when your soul itself has that deep longing. Every day of your life, there's a golden moment; you have to make here your Paradise. If you have not made here your Paradise, what Paradise are you aiming for? In everything that we do, we serve the Divine. We find God in everything; we are not separate from God. Wherever we are, the Divine is with us.

Hey everyone, welcome back to the Know Thyself podcast! Today, we have the privilege of sitting down with the founder of Bakti Marga, an individual who is a spiritual teacher and leader, Paramahansa Vishwananda. It's a pleasure to have you here. Your mission is to open the heart of humanity. I would love to dive into your story and how you originated here.

I believe, and I have come to my understanding, that there is a deeper fundamental longing and searching within the mind and heart of every human being that we often label as career, relationship, and these different manifestations in the material world. So, I just want to ask you: what do you feel that we are fundamentally searching for? What is the deeper longing?

Everybody is searching for one thing, which is happiness. Happiness has different levels; some look for happiness in the material world, some look for it in relationships, and some look for happiness in spirituality. Fundamentally, everybody is searching to be happy. However, why does it seem to elude us so much? Why are so many people not happy?

Because we want things too quickly. We look for happiness, but we want it very quickly, and this makes us very impatient with ourselves and with everything else. That's why even when we search for happiness, we don't achieve that happiness. When you say the word happiness, what do you mean by that? I think a lot of people have different perceptions of what they think happiness means.

It's true. We often look for happiness thinking that something will make us happy, but along the road, we find out that there is no happiness in it; our happiness disappears over time. We like to have something wonderful, and yes, we enjoy it, but after some time, that happiness fades away. For me personally, when I'm talking about happiness, I'm talking about something that carries on—something that doesn't fade away with time or with, let's say, enjoying something and then it fading away.

I feel that a lot of people get true happiness and joy mixed with pleasure. Many people say, "Well, a car makes me happy," or "A relationship makes me happy," but that's actually pleasure. You're speaking to the deeper fundamental; there's a fulfillment, a deep satisfaction. We may do so many things, but there is still a part of us that is not satisfied. When that which is not satisfied gets satisfied, that is what I call real happiness.

It feels like there's a fundamental presupposition that we're trying to look for something infinite within the finite. However, the infinite is also in the finite; they are not separate. Very often, especially on the spiritual path, we try to find that infinite separate from the finite, but they are not separate; they are together.

So, what have you found really brings and unlocks that true deep happiness which lasts? Where does one look for that in order for it to last? Actually, that happiness very often comes from realizing, as I said earlier, that we try to find it elsewhere, but in reality, it's not.

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True happiness isn't found in the external; it's realized within ourselves and in how we approach life. Shift from the mind to the heart, and you'll discover the divine connection that brings lasting joy.

Call real happiness. It feels like there’s a fundamental presupposition that we’re trying to look for something infinite within the finite. However, the infinite is also in the finite; they are not separate. Very often, especially on the spiritual path, we try to find that infinite separate from the finite, but they are not separate; they are together.

So, what have you found that really brings and unlocks that true deep happiness which lasts? Where does one look for that in order for it to last? Actually, that happiness very often eludes us because, as I mentioned earlier, we try to find it elsewhere. In reality, it is not elsewhere; it is within ourselves and in the things that we do, as well as the attitude with which we approach those things. This is the essence of the Know Thyself podcast, where we love to dive into exploring what is the true nature of self. Who am I? What is our purpose here? How can we be the most effective stewards to serve the planet? I believe this aligns very much with your mission of opening the hearts of humanity.

This leads us to a main question about spirituality and knowing thyself: What does it mean to really become self-actualized? For me, it is about being present in every moment. Whatever we do, we do it with a certain consciousness and awareness that we are Divine. This Divinity can also be expressed in everything that we do. When we realize this connection with the source of everything, that is what brings true happiness. It is about actualizing this awareness in your daily life; whatever you are doing, you do it with the understanding that it is also Divine.

It’s a powerful distinction to use the term self-realization because you are discovering something that has always been there. As you said, it’s about realizing that you have always been connected with the Divine. However, the mind often creates separation. While we may talk about this realization, many people know about it but have not truly realized it. Knowing and realizing are two different things; when you truly realize something, that knowing disappears.

This is similar to growing up; when you are young, you become a youth, and then from youth, you transition into old age. All the experiences remain, but you transcend them. Throughout life, whatever you have experienced, you are transcending it. I feel that much of our pain and suffering comes from our perceptions with the mind about the world and our problems. You often speak about the shift from the mind to the heart, and I would love for you to share more about why that is such a powerful shift in one’s life and how to realize it.

We have done everything with the mind, and we are experts in it. However, whatever we do driven by the mind does not lead us to true happiness or contentment. There must be something beyond that. Why is it that some people are truly happy, no matter what happens in their lives? Even when their lives go upside down, there is still happiness inside of them. Personally, I think that this is where the mind must shift and descend into the heart.

When we talk about the heart, we are not referring to the physical heart; we are talking about the spiritual heart, which continues to open. This is where love comes in. People often ask, “What is the nature of love?” This is a profound question because love is something mysterious. Everyone loves and talks about love, but what is it? Of course, religions would tell you that love is God, and that’s the end of the discussion. But there is so much more to explore.

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True happiness comes from shifting our focus from the mind's judgments to the heart's openness, where love flows freely and acceptance reigns.

Happiness goes upside down; there's happiness inside of them. Personally, I think that is the way. You know, where the mind has shifted, it has descended into the heart itself. The heart just didn't stay like that. When we are talking about the heart, we're not talking about the physical heart; we're talking about the spiritual heart, which keeps opening. This is where love comes from.

You know, what is the nature of love? Very often, people ask, "What is the nature of love? What is love?" This is something which is very mysterious. Everybody loves; everybody talks about love, but what is that love? Of course, religion would tell you, "Yes, it is Love. Love is God." That's it, point finished. But it can't just be that; there's more to love. That's why we see love is identified with God in a certain way because it transcends everything. It is unlimited.

When I come in contact with individuals who I feel live in their heart, there is a sense of freedom. It's like the saying of being in the world but not of it. You're not attached to the external circumstances. Actually, when it is with the mind, there's a lot of judgment and criticism. Whenever you come to somebody who is very mind-oriented, we think that yes, that person knows everything. So, you close yourself; you don't open up because you know you will be criticized. You know that person will judge you, and yes, they will see you in a different negative way.

However, when you come to somebody whose heart is open, you're free; you let it flow. There's an acceptance there, without judgment, and there is this flow of love. It is just flowing naturally. I think everybody listening has this experience probably daily, where they feel judgments, however big or small, whether labeling something as good or bad, having attachment to certain circumstances, or wanting to go another way. It's a natural process of the mind.

So, how do we really sink deeper into the heart so we can start to hold this and not think so dualistically? Well, dualistically is from the mind. We have a mind, and whatever we do in the world, we do it with the mind. Naturally, there is good, there is bad, but we should not attach to it. This is what makes the difference. When we start identifying with the judgment, whether it is good or not good, both are judgments. The moment our mind starts attaching itself to that, I often say if you judge something as good, automatically you accept the bad. Whether you say it or not, you're accepting it; it is there.

To come to the point of the heart itself, it's not that you don't care, but you come to a point of "yes, it is fine how it is." Something goes right in your way; it is fine. Something doesn't go the way you want; it's also fine. You can find that both can lead you somewhere.

There's a beautiful story about one master and his disciple. They used to go on retreat, spending six months in their hut and six months in the forest. On the way back, when they were returning to their hut after being in the forest, they saw that half of the hut was broken, and the statue was gone. The master, while the disciple started complaining, said, "Oh, how sad! We have been meditating in the forest; we have been doing spiritual practice. How unfair from God to look at our heart? He cannot protect our heart!"

When he looked at the master, the master was on the floor bowing down, saying, "Thank you, God. You knew that we have not been here for six months. I was wondering how this would be because of the smell and all this. You have made it so open now that there is natural air conditioning."

For sure, the disciple must have been thinking something must have gone wrong with the master during the last retreat. As they went in, they were sleeping and looking up at all the stars. Suddenly, it started to rain. Again, the master was on his knees, saying, "Thank you, God.

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Our perception shapes our reality; a positive attitude transforms challenges into opportunities for growth.

He cannot protect our heart when he looked at the master. The master was on the floor, bowing down, saying, “Thank you, God. You know you have... you knew that we have not been for six months.” He continued, “I was wondering how this will be, you know, because of the smell, all this, you know. So you have made it so open now so that there is natural AC.”

For sure, the disciples must have been thinking that something must have gone wrong with the master during the last retreat. As they went in, they were sleeping and looking up at all the stars. Suddenly, it started to forecast rain, and rain began falling again. The master was on his knees, saying, “Thank you, God. You know better.” He expressed gratitude for the rain, saying, “So we didn't take a shower; you sent the shower down.”

The disciples looked at him and asked, “What's wrong with you, master? You know, it was broken, and you say thank you for that. And now it's raining; we are completely wet, and you even say thank you for that.” The master responded, “Listen, I don't know if God really exists. I have never seen Him. I don't know if He ever listens, but one thing that has brought me and kept me strong on the path is my attitude towards life. I take it in a positive way, and I find it wonderful.”

He elaborated, “When we learn to take things in a positive way in our life, we are more relaxed. We do not need to stress ourselves because stress doesn't solve the problem; it makes the problem worse. When we see the world, you know, when there's a problem, people mostly attach themselves to that problem. They meditate upon the problem, and the problem gets bigger.”

I love that perspective. So much of our joy or suffering, as you mentioned, is indeed our attitude and perception about whatever is happening. One of the Vedantic philosophies, which is more aligned with the lineage I believe you studied, is Vishishtadvaita. I would love for you to share a little bit about what that is so we can dive into that understanding.

Vishishtadvaita actually comes from Shankara, you know, but it is compared to other forms of Advaita. The idea is that we are not separate from God; God is with us wherever we are. Others say, okay, the formless aspect... you know, we are separate. Everything is God. They said, “No, we are part of Him.” Of course, we also have Advaita, which states, “No, no, no, everything is complete separation.” So one philosophy says there's no separation, while another claims complete separation.

In Vishishtadvaita, we find that in everything we do, we serve the Divine. We find God in everything; He is not separated from us; we are part of Him. I think more and more people are getting familiarized with non-dualism and Advaita teachings, which is amazing. However, the distinction with Vishishtadvaita is that there are some distinctions in my understanding. Could you clarify a little bit what those are?

This actually is a very long dispute, okay? For centuries, they have been fighting with each other between the different schools of philosophy. The Advaita philosophy and the Vishishtadvaita philosophy keep asserting, “We are right; you are wrong.” Nowadays, it’s different. Even if we go deeper into the philosophical point of view, we can discuss how it profits people in today’s society.

We can talk at length about Advaita and Vishishtadvaita. The difference is that from Shankara, who portrayed his philosophy as “everything is Brahman, everything is only Brahman, nothing else exists,” Vishishtadvaita states, “Everything is Brahman, but you are also part of it.” You see the difference between the two. The moment you put something in the context of being part of it, there is a distinction between the two philosophies.

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Life is a sacred journey, not a random occurrence; every experience shapes our soul's evolution towards realization.

It's different, even if we go deeper into the philosophical point of view. How does it profit people in today's society? We can talk at length about adventism and Shankara. The difference is that Shankara portrayed his philosophy as "everything is Brahman; everything is only Brahman." In contrast, V said, "no, everything is Brahman, but you are also part of it."

So, you see the difference between the two. The moment you put something in the equation, you acknowledge that you are part of it. In that part, there is a distinction between the two. Even if God prevails in everything, the nature of relating is different. We must consider how we relate to the divine and how we relate to people. Otherwise, we could just say, "yes, everything is God," and leave it at that. It's easygoing, you know?

In short, this is the difference. I would like to explore some of the philosophical understanding, but also, as a Sat Guru, it’s more about your mystical experience in understanding and perception of life. I would love to ask you, from your own personal experience, some existential questions about life and reality. Not that we haven't already been there, but some of these questions include: where did we come from before we were born, and where do we go after we die?

In your experience, what is the nature of those questions? My experience shows that our journey, which our soul has undertaken, is a multitude of realities. Life doesn’t just happen from one day to the next, as people often think. Especially in the West, many believe that life just happens randomly. However, it can't be random; it is a journey. Why do some people come with a spirit while others do not? It is so far away that you don’t even know if they will ever reach that point.

This is a journey of life itself. So, where do we come from? There is a mystery to it. In my belief, we always exist; we exist in the cosmic form of God. We are never separated from Him. When we had our individual personality, God wanted us to experience the world because it is His creation. Thus, we came into existence.

Of course, the soul has journeyed through many forms. As stated in the scriptures, there are 8.4 million species until one reaches the point of having a human body. This human form is not just random; it is sacred. That’s why honoring it is also important. After this journey, how many times have you come into a human form? Many times.

Spirituality doesn’t just happen randomly; it doesn’t just appear. You cannot simply say, "now I'm spiritual" because everybody is spiritual. The herd mentality does not apply here. It doesn’t happen like that because something has to awaken inside of you. This awakening occurs when your Atma, or soul, has a deep longing to know. Life cannot be random.

Very often, I speak with people who have had this question since they were small, but nobody was there to answer it. When you look at the world itself, it will not provide such answers. We come from a very long journey, and that is what has brought us into the spiritual realm. This is why we have this deep longing for more. Who will give us that Grace to realize this?

In our belief, it is said that when you have that deep longing, your soul sends a message to the universe, to God. God then sends you where you need to be. These levels are step by step, and you will be carried on until you reach that point of complete realization of who you truly are. You may have a glimpse of who you are, but having a glimpse does not mean that the journey ends there. Very often, people say, "okay, yes, I'm self-realized; that’s it." However, self-realization is just the beginning.

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True liberation begins when we create our own paradise here and now, not just in hopes of an afterlife.

Into that spiritual realm, that's why we have this deep longing for more. You know, who will give us that Grace to realize what we call kppa? We call it Grace. So, when we have that deep longing, the soul sends a message to the universe, to God. And God sends you where you have to be. Those levels, this step by step, you will be carried on until you come to that point of complete realization of who you truly are. You have a glimpse of who you are.

However, having a glimpse of who you are doesn't finish there. Very often, people say, "Okay, yes, I'm self-realized; that's it." But self-realization is just one step of it. We have to come to a point of God realization. We can't just say we know it by our own effort. We can try our best, do our spiritual practices, and put all the right things in our lives, but there's one more step. This step comes naturally; we become a magnet to attract that Grace.

You spoke about how our origins are from this Cosmic Consciousness, individuating and experiencing potentially millions of different species until we realize the sacredness of this human birth. Where do you feel that we are going after this moment of self-realization? What is the path after this human life? This is a question that everybody asks, but actually, those who have reached that point have not come back to tell anyone about it. However, we know it through the experiences of great sages and saints. Once we enter into that Blissful state of love, we always have compassion for others.

The great sages and saints choose to be here because, very often, we hear, "Oh yes, let us be free." But freedom is also being here. You can be here and be liberated. You don't need to die and go to the other side to be liberated. The sages and saints choose to come and help humanity, which is very important.

For me, vuna is whenever you experience joy and happiness. That joy and happiness, which is with God at all times, is V. It's not that you have to reach a place once you die. You have to make here your paradise first. If you have not made here your paradise, what paradise are you aiming for? People often have an aim, saying, "Once I finish life here and die, then I will go to some place." It's a hope, yes, but it's not like this. You have to make vuna here; your life has to become that paradise itself.

So, can vuna be perceived as pure light or a reference to a kind of paradise? You get glimpses of it; it's both the place we're going to and the place we can experience here. It is here itself. Yes, there is for sure a place after you depart from here where the great souls reach. When you have finished your Dharma, your duty here, of course, there's a place of no return. But to reach that place, you have to make it here.

Now, can I ask you a few questions about your own personal path and journey to this point? Yes, sure. You are very distinguished from most people's paths, where you came into this life with the experience of a connection to the Divine. Oftentimes, people experience this connection through a lot of suffering. Could you share what it was like as an early boy? What was the experience you had at five?

So, my experience, you know, since I was small, my grandparents told me, my mom and my grandma, that since I started crawling, they would never find me anywhere. They would only find me in prayer.

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Your connection to the Divine can start from the earliest moments of your life, often in the most unexpected ways.

Can I ask you a few questions about your own personal path and journey to this point? Yes, sure. You're very distinguished from most people's paths, where you came into this life very much so with the experience of the connection to the Divine. Often, this connection is developed through a lot of suffering. Could you share about what it was like as an early boy, particularly the experience you had at five?

So, my experience, you know, since I was small, what my grandparents told me—my mom and my grandma—was that since I started crawling, they would never find me everywhere. They would always find me only in the prayer room. That was where they would always look for me first.

What I remember from when I was about five years old is that something happened in Mauritius, which is in East Africa, near Madagascar—a small island in the middle of the Indian Ocean. It's true, actually; many people here in America don't know where Mauritius is. Very often, when I pass through passport control, they ask, "Where is that?" and I have to explain.

So, I grew up in Mauritius, and when I was small, around five years old, I was playing with all the kids in the surrounding area because we lived together. One day, I was just sitting under a tree—actually, it was a poisonous tree—and I was eating the seeds that had fallen from it. They tasted like peanuts to me, so I thought I was eating peanuts. After some time, I lost consciousness. Of course, I was foaming at the mouth, and the other kids rushed to my parents and told them. My mom and dad came and took me to the hospital, where the doctors did what they had to do. So, I'm here today.

After all this, I found myself in the children's ward, which had many beds filled with children. There was this man outside the hospital window with long hair, and he was giving sweets to all the children. Everyone was attracted to him, and I also went to him. I asked him one question: "Why are you here?" I don't know why I asked this question; I'm still thinking about it. But it's true, I asked him why he was there, in my language.

Looking at me, he said, "I'm here for all the children, but for you especially." This didn't make any sense to me. He held my hand, gave me one sweet, and one rupee. At that time, one rupee, which is 100 cents, was a lot of money for small kids. You could get a lot of sweets with it because one sweet was one cent. My mind was so attached to the idea of "Wow, nice!"

Then he asked me, "Do you know who you are?" I didn't answer because it didn't resonate with me. I carried on, very happy with the sweet and the rupee. Then he said to me, without turning, while pointing behind him, "Do you see the light?" I was looking at a hill, trying to find out which light he was talking about. There was no light. I looked at the hill and the trees, and I said, "No, I don't see any light."

He bent down, looked into my eyes, and said, "Look properly." The second time I looked, I saw a ball of light, like the sun, surrounded by a disk of light. It was so beautiful. Then he said to me, "Well, I heard a voice; that's you." How long this vision lasted, I have no clue. After some time, when I came back to myself, I heard him say, "I have to go; your mom and auntie are coming." He just lifted his hand and disappeared.

Eventually, my mom and my auntie came, and I was very excited to tell them the story. Of course, for them, they thought it was just a child's story. I said, "Okay, it's Uncle." You know, in the island culture, we refer to everyone as Uncle or Auntie out of respect.

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Sometimes the most profound experiences are dismissed as mere childhood stories, but they hold the key to our spiritual awakening.

Surrounded by a dis of light, it was so beautiful. Then he said to me, "Well, I heard a voice." His voice asked, "How long has this vision lasted?" I had no clue. After some time, when I came back to myself, I said, "I have to go; your mom and auntie are coming." He just lifted his hand and disappeared. Eventually, my mom and my auntie came, and I was very excited to tell them the story. Of course, for them, they thought of it as a child's story. You know, I said, "Okay, it's Uncle." In the islands, everybody is referred to as Uncle or Auntie; it’s a sign of respect that we have. So, just to finish with that, Uncle was the first memory I have of my master.

Later on, I was in a situation where my mom brought me to the dentist because I needed to have a tooth removed. When the dentist put in the injection, I bit his finger and would not let go because it was hurting me. I kept saying, "No, I don't want him to remove my tooth." My mom got really angry and gave me a good slap, saying, "No, no, no, don't beat him; it's fine." My mom was super angry and told me to go outside. I was out crying, and when I came out on the terrace, there was the same man standing there. He said, "You've been naughty." I replied, "Yeah, I bit the finger of the dentist because I don't want him to remove my tooth." He was smiling at that moment. Just then, my mom came and dragged me away while I was crying. I said, "Mom, look, this is the same Uncle!" But nobody was there. I thought this was normal.

At the age of 14 and a half, I experienced something that changed my life. One night, on the 21st of April, 1992, my parents believed in spirituality but were not very spiritual people. They would go to the temple twice a year, on the first of January and during Shivaratri, the great night of Shiva. However, I was always attracted to spirituality. I used to collect little pictures of the gods, like Krishna and Shiva, and I would keep them in a cupboard because my mom did not allow me to put them on the wall. Every night, I would do my little prayer with incense and then close it again so my mom wouldn’t get angry.

That night, I woke up because there was light coming from the cupboard. I got scared, thinking, "Oh, it's burning!" I could already see my mom's reaction. So, I rushed to open the cupboard. When I opened it, there was a picture of a saint, Sai Baba. Around him, there were specs of light emanating from the picture. When I opened it, I felt a relief and a calmness inside of me; it was peaceful. After this happened, I closed the cupboard and went back to sleep. The next morning, I thought it was just a dream and that it was finished. Nothing ever happened until I went to college that day.

When I came back, my mom was sitting outside crying. I asked her, "What's wrong with you? Why are you sitting and crying outside? Did something happen to you or my dad?" She said, "No, no, no, just go inside." So, I went inside the house, and on the wall and all around, there was some manifestation of ashy, which we call holy ash. It was just there; it wasn't much, just a speck. My mom was crying and said, "Oh, maybe you should remove these things, you know?" So, we cleaned everything. This was a mistake that we made; actually, the more we cleaned, the more it started coming.

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True spiritual experiences are felt deeply within, not validated by others. It's about how you live and the love you share, not the need for external approval.

Crying, I asked her, "What's wrong with you? Why are you sitting and crying outside? Did something happen?" She replied, "Your mom died." I thought to myself, "Well, your mom is already dead, so yeah, no problem." I wondered if maybe something had happened to my dad or her family, but she insisted, "No, no, no, go inside." So, I went inside the house.

On the wall and all around, there was some manifestation of ashy—we call it holy ash. It was just there; it wasn't much, actually. My mom was crying and suggested, "Oh, maybe you should remove these things." So, we decided to clean everything. This was a mistake we made, actually, because the more we cleaned, the more things started manifesting. From that point on, my spiritual journey began.

Later on, I had more visions of that same person, and much later, in 2008, he revealed to me that it was actually him all this time. At that moment, I didn't know who he was. Before that, I had heard about Mahar Babaji, and it was similar. In 2008, he revealed that all this time, it was him. It was fascinating.

What can you share about the reality of who Babaji is and was in your experience? I think people may have first become familiar with him through Paramahansa Yogananda's Autobiography of a Yogi, where they hear about this great being. I would love for you to share what you feel about who he was and is.

For me personally, I think of Mahar Babaji as a partial manifestation of Lord Krishna. When Lord Krishna disappeared, he eliminated that aspect to remind humanity to maintain balance in this world. He manifested as Mahar Babaji, and he serves as a teacher for all other teachers. He reminds us, as he reminded me when I was small, of that light. Even though at that time, it didn't give me a deep realization of, "Yes, that is who I am," it was still a reminder of that truth.

How do you know what is true—a real experience of a connection with a non-physical being versus the potential for deception? The mind plays many tricks and creates a lot of visions. I have met many people who think they are very special, but when they face tests or problems in their lives, you can see whether they are truly spiritual or not. I have encountered many such individuals.

So, how do you know if you are genuinely experiencing something? There is no doubt about it. You will often notice that people who experience things from the mind need validation from others. They seek confirmation from you, wanting you to acknowledge what they are experiencing. This need for validation, not from the guru or the master but from others, indicates that it is not right. It becomes their own delusion. If the experience is genuine, you will not even want to display it; you won't seek validation from others.

I also think there's no way for me or anyone listening to validate the authenticity of someone else's personal experience. Each person has their own experience; my experience is mine and cannot be yours. Each individual will have their unique experience, and this is the beauty of the spiritual path.

I believe it is more important to look at how someone lives their life as a result of whatever they have experienced or believe. The joy they spread and the love they help unlock in people's hearts is, to me, the true testament of someone's spiritual journey. Yes, this is also a very good point.

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Your unique experience is your truth; no one can validate it but you. Embrace the journey and the joy it brings to others.

The discussion begins with a reflection on the display of validation regarding personal experiences. The speaker notes that there is no external way for someone to validate the authenticity of another person's personal experience. Each individual has their own unique journey; my experience will be my experience, and it cannot be the same as yours. This uniqueness is the beauty of the spiritual path. It is more important to observe how someone is living their life as a result of their experiences or beliefs, as well as the joy and love they spread, which is, in essence, a true testament to their character.

The speaker emphasizes a significant point: when one encounters someone whose life is filled with misery, acknowledging their suffering does not contribute to joy. Only those who are liberated can liberate someone else; if you possess something, you can share it, but if you do not, you cannot give.

At the age of 14, the speaker recalls a distinct moment that could be described as samadhi. An aunt suggested they sit and meditate, and although the speaker had never meditated before, they agreed to try. They sat down to meditate at 8:00 in the evening, and during this session, something profound occurred. The speaker describes leaving their body and entering a state of samadhi for three days.

During this time, the family, including the aunt, was in a state of commotion, worried as they observed the speaker's faint heartbeat. The speaker reflects on whether they were seated or lying down, noting that they began seated but were likely moved afterward. They share that they had never spoken about their experience before, but during this state, they felt as if they were traveling to different spheres and realities, meeting various beings.

The speaker acknowledges that many people are beginning to understand how our consciousness might not be bound by time and space. They mention having heard numerous accounts of individuals leaving their bodies during deep meditation. The speaker's own experience involved traveling to different worlds and realities, engaging with other beings.

When asked about how this experience influenced their devotion to their spiritual path, the speaker reflects on their lifelong commitment to their faith, rooted in their Hindu background. They express that this uncompromising devotion towards their mission has been a constant since childhood. The speaker is invited to elaborate on this devotion, exploring its origins and how it has shaped their life from a young age to the present.

=> 00:50:19

Devotion isn't just a moment; it's a journey that transcends lifetimes, fueled by love for the divine and humanity.

From a young age, you were like traveling to different worlds and realities, experiencing and communicating with other beings. Do you want to share any more about that? Are you open to a little bit?

So, from that moment in that experience forward, you had a different devotion to the path that you wanted to live in this life. Like I said to you, from small, the devotion was there; faith was there because I come from a Hindu family. That was also the background of that, you know? This level of uncompromising devotion towards your mission, to the beautiful ashram and the people around you, is significant. Can you speak into that devotion that you feel from a young age until now? Where do you feel like this has come from?

As Mahat Bab has said to me, "This is from previous life itself." That devotion doesn't just sprout itself like that; it is a continuation of what is going on. Like I said, God reminds each one where they have to be. My path, what I am giving to the devotees and to the people, is the love that God has for humanity and the love that humans have for the Divine itself. That is why you see, through ashrams, through temples, and through worship, they come to feel that love.

An interesting part of that dynamic was that after that samadhi experience—if I am correct—you had awareness and a perfect understanding of Kriya practices. No, that came later on. In 2001, actually, Mah asked me to teach Kriya, and I said to him, "No, I will not teach." It was a bold move. We had that connection because I said no; I didn't feel like it was the right time.

Then, in 2005, he asked me again, and I said, "Okay, fine," but with one condition. I had one condition put to it: there’s an ancient technique of healing called Om chanting that the yogis and saints used to do, and it had disappeared. I said to Mah, "If you allow me to bring that technique back, then I will teach." He accepted, and I said, "Okay, fine. Now we'll start teaching."

Your journey since then is fascinating. I'm just so curious about having these experiences as a young boy. Regardless of how adventurous and expanded your consciousness is, you're still in a 14-year-old body. From that point, people started to come to you. I'm curious about this transition into people perceiving you as a guru.

No, that came later, much later. You see, I come from a Hindu background. In Hinduism, we often take the priest as someone very advanced, which is not really the case; they are just doing their work. However, in the normal sense, people have that respect towards someone who is worshiping. For me, when this happened, like I said, the ash was coming, and this was something wonderful. People started coming because they wanted to see miracles; this is what the mind is about. They want to see miracles.

So, they started coming, and the funny thing is that people would take the ash home, and they would get healed. One famous case involved a woman who came with cancer. She was crying, saying, "Please help me; I have little children." I said, "Okay, fine. I will see what I can do." Then, her cancer started disappearing. She had a wonderful life, and her children grew up. Just recently, now after 20 years, the cancer came back.

As people started hearing about these miracles, for example, when I started traveling, I was invited to Kenya by a couple at the age of 15. Their son was going blind, and the doctors could not do anything. They had done all the surgeries, and everything was getting worse. They called me, and I went to Kenya for three days. Eventually, the son’s eyes got better. So, like that, things happened. Now, later in your life...

=> 00:55:25

True growth comes from facing challenges head-on, not avoiding them. Embrace the struggle to transcend it.

Disappearing, so she had a Wonderful Life. Her children grew up, and just recently, after 20 years, cancer came back. As people started hearing about it, I was invited to Kenya by a couple. Their son, at the age of 15, was experiencing severe vision problems; he was getting blind. Despite the doctors performing all the necessary surgeries, his condition was getting worse. They called me, and I went to Kenya for three days. Eventually, the eyes of the son got better.

Later in life, when the ashram was eventually built, I became curious about how I have managed to maintain purity and clarity in my heart. The ego can be very insidious and slippery, easily latching onto admiration or worship from others, tricking us into making it more about the mind. Have I struggled with that? Actually, I have never had any struggle with it. I don't seek validation from people. I have experienced enough in my life to know that people today may flatter you, telling you how much they love you, while the same individuals might put you down tomorrow.

Listening to people and how they present themselves in front of you should not be taken seriously. They will give you big affirmations, but I have learned throughout my life never to take it personally. The moment you take it personally, your ego starts to look for self-gratification, seeking devotion and admiration from others.

What role do you feel the guru plays? The guru plays a very significant role. Without the guru, it is not possible to navigate the spiritual path. I have often heard people say, "We don't need the guru," but that is simply not true. We need the guru because only those who have reached a certain point can lead you there. Only someone who knows how to exit the forest can guide you out; otherwise, it is like a maze where you can easily get stuck. Recently, I went to a mirror maze in San Francisco, and it was chaotic because everything was moving around. Without a guide to lead you out of that maze, it is very difficult. That is the grace of the guru.

I think often people associate their humanity with limitations. Everything I am speaking to reflects that our humanness is equally part of the divine and human form. Do I still experience frustration? Yes, I cannot say no. Sometimes I need to be frustrated for others to listen; otherwise, they simply do not pay attention. Especially when you have repeated the same thing ten times and they still do not change.

In the West, there is a significant perception of transcending the small self or the ego, rather than integrating it and coming along the journey. I am curious about thoughts on this idea of transcending what people label as negative or bad emotions. The easiest way to transcend is to go through it. Very often, we try to go sideways, but that does not lead to learning anything. When you go through challenges, you will be able to transcend them, and once you have transcended, they will not return. However, if you try to bypass them, they will come back, often even stronger.

Transcending the ego is crucial, and transcending negativity is a choice. When you are on the path of spirituality, seeking happiness, or striving for success in any field, it is a choice. Whatever choice you make, you must give it thought and go deeper into that. If you focus on negativity, it will drag you down; you cannot expect to flourish while giving attention to negativity.

=> 01:00:10

Transcend the ego and negativity by choosing to focus on positivity and devotion to something greater than yourself, and watch your life transform.

Transcending the ego is very important, and transcending negativity is a choice. When you are on the path of spirituality, seeking happiness and success in whatever field you desire, it is essential to recognize that whatever choice you make, you give your thought to it and go deeper into that. If you give attention to negativity, that negativity will drag you down. You cannot expect to flourish and truly become great if you focus on the negative. However, when you give attention to your positivity and strive to be away from pride and ego, you will rise.

It is crucial for us to find success in internal fulfillment and to have devotion towards something greater than ourselves in our lives. In fact, it can be easier to achieve this because, when you focus on devotion to oneself, it often stems from an egoistic point of view. You might think, "Look how wonderful I am," or "Look how successful I am," yet you still find yourself unsatisfied, wanting more. This reflects the greediness of life. When you transcend this mindset, you begin to appreciate what you have.

Carrying that devotion from the "I" to the "We" allows you to connect with the greater whole. For example, you may find that you are deeply devoted to your mission, and in doing so, grace comes into the picture. When you devote your life to something greater for the collective, such as God, you take the credit away from yourself and give it to the divine. This act of surrender makes you feel lighter because you acknowledge that the same Lord resides within you and in everything around you.

Devotion is significant because people can have devotion for many things—whether it is to their personality, success in life, or other lower spheres. However, when we give devotion to the highest sphere, to God, we elevate our spiritual practice. The balance between effort and grace on the path is essential; you must put in the effort to attract grace. Without effort, you cannot reach that grace. This effort manifests through your spiritual practices.

It is important to understand the feeling of grace and how it often appears in our lives. Many people approach their spiritual practices with intensity, feeling that they must push themselves to achieve results. This militant approach can lead to collapse and burnout, as I have experienced myself. Therefore, it is crucial to enjoy what you are doing. Spirituality is not boring; rather, it is one of the most joyful and celebratory aspects of life. You should celebrate each moment of your life.

Grace can arrive in many forms and often manifests in the small things in your life. I refer to these as golden moments. If you perceive that there is grace in each day of your life, you will begin to notice it. It is not only during times of illness when you get healed that you experience grace; rather, every day holds its own golden moments waiting to be recognized.

=> 01:04:51

Spirituality isn't boring; it's about celebrating every moment and recognizing the grace in daily life. Embrace humility and let go of the ego to truly live from the heart.

Many people often think that spirituality is boring, but I believe it is one of the most joyful and celebratory aspects of life itself. It is important to celebrate each moment of your life. So, how do you experience Grace in the people around you and in your own personal life? What form does it take, and what does it feel like?

Grace comes in many forms, often found in the small things of your life. I refer to these as golden moments. If you perceive that each day of your life contains Grace, you will begin to notice it. However, you must be open to it. It's not just about experiencing Grace when you fall sick and then get healed; every day of your life holds a golden moment. For instance, when you help someone on the street or do something good for another person, that in itself is Grace. It allows you to serve others.

I think part of the journey to experiencing Grace involves not identifying with a small, limited self. Much of the path of spirituality involves a discussion about fearlessness. How does one arrive at fearlessness in the pursuit of gaining and serving? Fear is what controls the mind. The mind wants to be in control, and the weapon it uses for that is fear. The mind knows your weaknesses, and you tend to focus on them. The more you glorify your weaknesses, the more fear will manifest because fear is tied to the unknown.

Often, people come to me and say, "Oh, you know, Gji, I want to change my life." However, the moment you start thinking like that, you can't change anything. We bring our own fears into the situation and magnify them to the point where we can no longer control them. I love how you mentioned that the spiritual journey is the longest and shortest distance of 40 centimeters—from the mind to the heart. It truly is a paradox. It is indeed the shortest journey, yet it feels like the longest because people are reluctant to let go of their minds and their ego personalities.

I once heard someone say that the longest distance between two points is a shortcut. Many people want to latch onto bumper sticker quotes and clichés of spirituality without truly feeling or integrating them into their bodies. So, what do you see as the direct path to living in the heart? It is to really enjoy each moment of your life because that moment is unique. If you cannot enjoy it, you will never be happy.

We are all on a spiritual path, whether or not we are consciously aware of it. Often, we unconsciously grasp at things we believe will bring us happiness or a pleasant experience of life. The path of spirituality is a conscious process of how to live in the heart and realize these truths. For everyone listening right now, what do you feel is another significant pitfall on the spiritual path that we haven't covered yet?

One major pitfall is spiritual ego. Even on the spiritual path, despite knowing everything, the ego can still be present, manifesting as spiritual pride. We must be careful of this. The way to guard against it is to strive for humility and embrace your humanity. I fully agree with this sentiment. If enlightenment is supposed to approximate a state of not having an obnoxious ego, then having an ego about how much you don't have an ego is one of the most unfortunate realities.

It is indeed sad to encounter individuals who, after developing an expanded sense of awareness or spiritual growth, allow their ego to make them feel superior. I have met many people like that who rely on borrowed book knowledge. They think that spirituality is solely about knowledge, but in reality, it is about experience.

=> 01:09:23

True enlightenment is found in humility, not in the ego that claims to be enlightened. Embrace your humanity and let experience guide your growth.

Become humble and embrace your humanity and your humility. I fully agree with this sentiment. If Enlightenment is supposed to be something approximating not having an obnoxious ego, then having an ego about how much you don't have an ego is one of the most unfortunate realities. It is indeed sad to experience. I have definitely encountered individuals who, after developing a little bit spiritually, feel a sense of superiority. They believe they are very important. I have met many people like that; they have borrowed book knowledge. Through this book knowledge, they think they know what spirituality is about, but it is really about experience.

If you are under spiritual, you have not experienced what you know, and that makes it difficult. Experience is important, especially on the path of devotion. There are some who say that knowledge is important; you have to have knowledge before you can have experience. However, when I look at my devotees, it seems to be the opposite. They have that experience first, and then they come to know about it. They gain the knowledge of it because once you have had knowledge and want to experience that, the mind is still there. You then want to create that experience with your mind, and the ego is still playing a role. The ego will make you think that you are very special, that you are a spiritual person.

You can see this in the world itself. People who are very knowledgeable, who have great knowledge about all the scriptures, often lack humility inside of them. This knowledge, which should help them to liberate, actually traps them into their own egoistic nature. I completely agree with this perspective. It is so important to have teachers and friends who can keep us in check and ensure that we remain humble. Whenever we gain knowledge, it is kind of an inevitable process for most people that we lose our path a little bit, but then we come back into the center. It can be noble sometimes to lose our way.

For example, when you shoot an arrow, you have to pull it back first. Sometimes it is good to take a step back and then move forward with a different strength. I was just doing a podcast with someone, Dr. Gilbert, and he mentioned a phrase he heard: "Sometimes I don't know where the line is until I step over it." This process of losing our way is something we may not realize is happening until after it has occurred.

Do you feel there is an overarching intention that Consciousness and life have in and of themselves? We have our own intentions for what we want in life, but Consciousness itself seems to be almost divinely designing and architecting experiences so that we may come to know ourselves. Yes, your Consciousness has its own Dharma. That is why I said you are here; it is not random. Your Consciousness will ensure that you have experiences that will bring you to a point where the expansion of that awareness can happen.

Very often, people search for meaning, thinking they are searching, but they don't feel that this is their way or their power until they find what they are really looking for. Much of that path is a process of aligning our will with the Divine will. This is closely related to what you spoke about regarding living in your Dharma. So, what is Dharma, and how can we find it to live it in our lives? There is a universal Dharma, which as human beings, is to love. This is on the path of devotion and is the Dharma of your soul itself—to come to that blissful state of love.

This is a universal Dharma, and of course, everyone has their own unique way to approach achieving it. For those who are struggling to find their purpose or Dharma, and who are seeking meaning in the way they show up on the planet, it is important to remember that we all desire this. Many people find frustration in not having it. However, never lose hope. Keep searching and longing for that, because it will happen. Firstly, for you to have the frustration that you have not yet found your Dharma, it is a sign that you are on the right path.

=> 01:14:05

Finding your unique path to love and purpose is a journey, not a destination. Embrace the frustration; it's a sign that something greater awaits you.

There is a universal Dharma, sure as a human being, that is to love. This love is on the path of Bhakti and the path of devotion; it is the Dharma of your soul itself to come to that Blissful state of love. This is a universal Dharma, and of course, in how to achieve that, everybody has their own Dharma in a unique way to approach it. For those who are struggling to find their purpose, their Dharma, and meaning in the way that they're showing up on the planet, we all desire that. However, many people find frustration in not having it.

Well, look, never lose hope. Keep searching, keep longing for that, you know, because this will happen. Firstly, for you to have the frustration of not yet finding your Dharma is a good sign; it’s not bad. This means that yes, there is something greater, that you are destined for something better. It feels like not knowing our path is a part of the process of knowing our path; it is a process.

When you look at Karma, Bhakti, and Gyana Yoga, you may wonder why certain individuals are attracted to one of these paths instead of the others. Each person, as I said, has their own path. Some people are drawn towards Karma Yoga, for example, because they feel good in serving. However, you have to understand the true nature of service. Even through service, you can grow spiritually. There are many saints who have attained realization just by serving. It is important to recognize that service to mankind is service to God.

Having that deep understanding that my service is towards the Divine is crucial. For some people, this is easy because they engage in service actively, rather than just writing a check and sending it. They go and be with the people; that is Karma Yoga. Then, there are others who find their path through Bhakti, or devotion. For them, serving also comes from an energetic point of view. When you are worshiping, it generates a certain energy. This energy not only benefits yourself but also expands to help the surrounding environment, nature, and Mother Earth.

Then you have Gyana Yoga, which appeals to those who are very knowledgeable. They also serve in a way because, without knowledge, we would not be here. All the great sages and saints of antiquity have written extensively on scriptures because that was needed.

Personally, I have found the most resonance with individuals like Krishnamurti and Shankaracharya, aligning with the path of Gyana Yoga. My intention here is to share this knowledge in a way that invites us back to that self-remembrance. It depends on someone's temperament and personality, as well as the level of spirituality where they stand, that will draw them to a certain path.

As you mentioned, all these teachers, including Maharaj and Krishnamurti, were very much about finding who you are. This is important on the path itself; without knowing who you are, you cannot help someone else to know themselves.

On the path of Bhakti, there is a different quality that someone carries within their heart. I feel like it’s true; Bhakti has a sweetness to it. Personally, I have seen all other paths, but the path of devotion has a different sweetness. It embodies a relationship with the Divine, a relationship with God. It’s amazing to say, "Okay fine, I can't reach that level, but I know you are there." No matter what, I know I'm not alone.

On the path of self-realization, there is often a sense of loneliness, as you have to journey alone. However, on the path of Bhakti, one can say, "Okay fine, I am with you." This is the beauty of devotion.

=> 01:19:03

True devotion brings a unique sweetness to life, reminding us we're never alone on our journey. Embrace your path wholeheartedly, and let love guide your relationships without expectations.

In discussing the quality of devotion, it is evident that those on this path carry a unique sweetness within their hearts. Personally, I have explored various paths, but the path of devotion offers a different kind of sweetness—a profound relationship with God. This relationship is remarkable; even if I cannot reach a certain level, I know that God is always there for me. This assurance alleviates feelings of loneliness that often accompany the path of self-discovery, where one must journey alone. In contrast, the path of devotion reassures us that we are not alone; we are accompanied by the divine.

This is beautifully illustrated in the Bhagavad Gita, where Krishna reminds Arjuna of his duty on the battlefield. Initially, Arjuna is confused and wishes to flee from the fight, but Krishna emphasizes that one should not let personal emotions interfere with their duty. Without the guidance of a spiritual teacher, such as Lord Krishna, Arjuna would have struggled to fulfill his responsibilities. The essence of this relationship lies in the commitment to perform one's duty selflessly, without selfish motives.

For those listening, it is important to understand that through Karma Yoga, we can purify ourselves by engaging in action without attachment to the results. Similarly, the Path of Knowledge (Jnana Yoga) and the Path of Devotion (Bhakti Yoga) can support us on our spiritual journeys. Each path possesses its own uniqueness, and what serves us best is the dedication we bring to it. If one is committed to their path and approaches it wholeheartedly, they will experience growth.

In discussing Bhakti Marga, I have experienced the grace of various spiritual teachers, and I find that this path has a sweetness that is often absent in others. In today's world, there is a pressing need for devotion, which is frequently misunderstood. Many people equate devotion with mere rituals, failing to grasp the deeper significance behind them. Understanding this depth is crucial for elevating one's spiritual experience.

Another important aspect to consider is the role of romantic relationships in our spiritual journeys. While these relationships can lead to suffering and pain, they can also foster awakening, sharing, and companionship. Love begins with our relationships, starting from the moment we are born and held by our mothers. However, many people approach relationships with excessive expectations, leading to drama and conflict.

When couples live together, they often face the reality of each other's flaws, which can create challenges. The beauty of relationships lies in the acceptance of these challenges and the willingness to learn and support one another. It is essential to recognize what brings you together in a relationship—to share, learn, and uplift each other rather than criticize.

In closing, I want to encourage everyone to be yourself and understand that God loves you just as you are. Embrace your unique creation and grow from that foundation. Thank you for taking the time to engage in this conversation today. It has been seven years since I last visited Los Angeles, and I am grateful for this synchronistic opportunity to share my thoughts.

As I look to the future, my aim remains to spread the love of God to everyone. This is the essence of what I carry and wish to share with the world. Thank you for tuning into this episode of the podcast. Please let us know how this discussion has impacted you, and until next time, remember to be true to yourself.