\"Now Is The Time To Get Rich!\" - Get Ahead & Build Wealth In The Upcoming Recession | Codie Sanchez

Pros focus on the few right things, while amateurs stay busy with everything.

Here's a thing that everybody should do if they want to get rich, but nobody wants to listen to, which is fascinating to me. Amateurs do lots of things, and pros do the few right things. How is that possible? It's because pros teach other amateurs how to do all of those little things that they don't need to do, and so they have leverage. Pros don't have to be busy; amateurs do have to be busy because they can't differentiate what is right and effective yet.

There is a portion of your life where you have to do incredible amounts of hard work because you can't delineate what is good versus what is busy work. Every one of us just needs to realize that at some point. The only way you start to realize what is good versus busy work is through skill acquisition, one of the skills of which is understanding what is effective versus what is just filler. You don't even have to pick up numerous skills. You can be like what Charlie Munger and Warren Buffett talk about, which is making three to five really high signal-to-noise bets over your entire career and sitting lazily on your asses for the rest of the time. Munger talks about it all the time; their strategy is only one thing: when they see big risk, they go in huge if they think that risk can be rewarded, and they do not go in if they do not see a huge risk-reward. They are professional nosayers because they have learned to differentiate between busy work and good work.

Most people should strive to determine what actions to take that will make movements or change. It's really easy to say but hard to do. Think about it in your business or my business. Every single day, there's a to-do list so big I will never ever finish it. I have to determine every single day what is one thing that, if I do it, becomes the fulcrum on which I get to place a lever that moves a giant boulder. If I can't continuously get closer to that one thing, the business will fail. We have to be able to figure out what a fulcrum looks like, what a lever looks like, and what are just a bunch of pebbles that are going to do nothing for us. That's actually quite hard.

Skill acquisition matters a lot. Getting that leverage matters a lot. We've painted a dark picture about where we're going, but I don't think either of us are afraid. Paranoid, yes, because only the paranoids survive. When I say I'm paranoid, what I mean is I'm trying to see the angles. I'm not taking that it's going to happen easily for granted. My channel can be rightly accused of "doom and gloom," but I'll just blame all of you because that's all you click on in a headline. What I hold myself accountable to is every word out of my mouth is something I actually believe. I believe all the things that I'm saying; I just don't have crippling fear. The only thing that maybe unnerves me, even though I'm a huge proponent of it, is AI. We'll get to that later.

A potentially "dark period" is coming from a recession standpoint. I say dark because a lot of people who aren't paranoid, who either don't have the intellect or have not put the time in or just don't have the right set of ideas, are going to get blindsided. I love too many of those people, so it does appear as a dark time to me. However, you have a quote from Baron Rothschild that I think bears bringing up: "Buy when there's blood in the streets, even if the blood is your own." Maybe especially when it's your own. He became a titan of industry, probably one of the richest men ever on an inflation-adjusted basis, so I think he did okay.

I pulled some data for us for this conversation today. If you haven't been through a recession yet, you're going to survive this next one too. If you look historically, we survived 1990, 1999, 2000, 2008, and 2020. Those were just the recessions during my working years. If you look at what happened after all of those recessionary periods, not all of them bounced back in a V-shaped recovery, but all of them have bounced back. The best predictor of the future is the past. It's not perfect, but it's likely that we will continue to survive as a country and as individuals just like we have historically. Even though it's scary out there, realizing a sale is coming can also be really powerful.

What do I mean by a sale? When the market goes down, everything becomes cheaper. You already see that Austin is one of the worst-hit real estate cities.

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Recessions are opportunities in disguise; be prepared and act smart to turn downturns into gains.

Through a recession, you're going to survive this next one too. Historically, we have survived the recessions of 1990, 1999, 2000, 2008, and 2020. While not all of these periods bounced back in a V-shaped recovery, they all eventually bounced back. The best predictor of the future is the past. It's not perfect, but it's likely that we will continue to survive as a country and as individuals, just like we have historically. Even though it's scary out there, realizing a sale is coming can also be really powerful.

When the market goes down, everything becomes cheaper. For instance, Austin is one of the worst-hit real estate cities in the country. If you're looking to buy real estate in a market that has Tesla, Dell, Google, and Facebook moving to it, along with being one of the defense AI centers of the country, now might be the time. The average house in Austin is down somewhere between 20 to 30%. Interest rates are coming down, and houses are 20 to 30% cheaper. You can buy a house for less money at lower interest rates than you could a year ago, and probably your pay hasn't gone down by 20 to 30%. In this market, you're going to have a bunch of opportunities to buy things on sale.

Most people get their money during downturns by transferring it from the unprepared to the prepared. If you do not listen to channels that are Doom and Gloom about what might come, then when it comes, you won't recognize it, you won't act on it, and you will actually lose from it because somebody else will take advantage of your panic. One of my biggest missions is to get people to see the pattern. Once you see that this happened in 2008, 2020, 1999, and 1990, and there are signals right now that show the same thing, you might be prepared for what's coming and it might not scare you.

For example, auto loans are at the highest level since the last recession, and auto loan defaults and credit card delinquencies are at all-time highs. Instead of being scared, you might think, "Something's coming on sale, so how can I make sure I have enough cash to do something with it?" You might consider circling up a couple of friends to make a smart investment in property during this period. Even the big companies like Black Rock and Blackstone face credit crunches during downturns, which means they cannot get as much access to capital as they can during normal markets. This is one of the few times where the poor can actually steal from the rich if they are thoughtful enough about preparing for it. One smart house acquisition or one smart multifamily acquisition can be enough to set up a family for generations.

During a recession, you need to be ready and act. We have a strategy for buying businesses during a recession. You buy a recession-resistant business, such as a plumbing company or a landscaping company. You could even buy part of it during a down period where maybe your boss needs a little bit of capital or needs you to bring in more clients. You raise prices because most small businesses are underpriced by 30 to 300%, and you add technology. If you are young and hungry, you are likely 10 to 100 times more tech-competent than the average small business owner. Your ability to work alongside or take over a small business and add technology that makes things cheaper, faster, and better is probably quite high.

For example, I was with a cleaning company this week that we might invest in. They are a window cleaning company, and they have implemented technology to improve their operations. This is the kind of strategic thinking that can help you not only get through a recession but also take advantage of it.

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Skip college, buy a business, and leverage your tech skills to transform it—freedom and success await.

During a period where your boss might need a little bit of capital or requires you to bring in more clients, especially in a recession-resistant sector, you can raise prices. Most small businesses are underpriced by somewhere between 30% to 300%. Additionally, you can add technology, as this generation, particularly the young and hungry, are 10 to 20 to 100 times more tech-competent than the average small business owner. Your ability to work alongside or take over a small business and integrate technology to make operations cheaper, faster, and better is probably quite high.

For instance, I recently met with a window cleaning company that we might invest in. These individuals were unemployed and laid off during COVID, coming from pretty good jobs but with no money. In their first year of business, they generated $200,000 in revenue. The following year, they achieved $500,000 in revenue, and this year, they are projected to earn between $700,000 and $1 million in revenue. These two entrepreneurs, both under 28 years old, succeeded by adding incredible social media marketing and branding. They created funky videos and unique merchandising because, honestly, can you name one window cleaning company? Probably not. This highlights how young people can get on board with simple businesses that haven't been modernized by the internet and technology.

People often look down on such businesses because we've been conditioned to pursue careers as doctors or lawyers and to go to college. However, you might find greater happiness owning a small business, getting a bit of dirt under your fingernails, and engaging with your community, rather than working 60 hours a week at a consulting firm like McKinsey or Bain under someone else's direction. This is a cultural shift of massive proportions that not enough young people are aware of yet.

A friend of mine, Dean, who has experience in various fields from financing films to traditional investing, shared a new thesis with me. He noted that we are in a transitional period with many baby boomers retiring without successors for their businesses. Concurrently, many people are frustrated with traditional jobs and don't want to be in investment banking. The new trend might be to skip college and buy a business. While this idea may sound ridiculous, especially during a recession, it holds potential.

If you're considering this path, understand that owning a small business is painful. There will be nights of regret. However, the moment someone tells you not to do it, yet they themselves are a business owner, ask them why they don't go back to being an employee. They likely won't have a good answer. They might say they're unemployable or had no other choice. The reality is, once people get a taste of freedom, they either want to partner on more deals and businesses or work for companies they are passionate about. They don't want to work for companies they dislike, doing things they don't want to do just for money.

In conclusion, while owning a small business is painful, it is worth it. For most people, running a small business is not rocket science, especially today. It has never been easier to start a small business, as evidenced by the significant increase in the number of new businesses being started.

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Success in small business isn't about having a groundbreaking idea; it's about hard work and seizing opportunities others overlook.

When people say they are unemployable or had no other choice, it's essential to listen to what people do rather than what they say. When individuals experience a taste of freedom, they either want to partner with others on more deals and businesses or work for companies they are passionate about. They no longer wish to work for companies they dislike or do tasks they don't enjoy just for money. Although it can be painful, it is worth it. Running a small business is not rocket science, especially today. It has never been easier to start a small business, as evidenced by the significant increase in business creation over the last three years compared to the past decade. However, it has never been harder to have a profitable business, with 90% of small businesses never hitting the $1 million mark.

Finding product-market fit in a small business is challenging, with 30 to 40% of businesses failing because they couldn't find it. Many have ideas that nobody wants. Instead of coming up with a new idea, one could buy a couple of small businesses and partner with the founders, knowing there is already a market for them because they have revenue and are profitable. This approach is not taught in school due to the associated risks. Unlike a guaranteed salary from a job at McKinsey or Bain, buying a small business involves the risk of losing money and potentially owing money from debt. However, the US has an incredible system called bankruptcy, allowing individuals to wipe the slate clean if a business doesn't work out. The best time to take such a risk is when you are young and have little to lose.

For example, if you are a general contractor in the construction business and cannot progress further, you could approach a competitor who is 65 years old or older and inquire about buying into their business. Many small business owners don't have other options if their revenue is under $10 million, leading to many businesses closing instead of being transferred. Through our courses and Mastermind, we have taught around 5,000 to 6,000 people how to buy businesses, resulting in the acquisition of approximately $262 million in revenue. These individuals include former teachers and engineers using seller financing and SBA loans.

I can almost immediately tell if someone will be successful in buying a business based on their attitude towards the work involved. Those who complain about the amount of work and expect deals to fall into their laps are unlikely to succeed. In contrast, those willing to put in the effort have not gone sideways yet. We've only seen three deals go sideways, all because the individuals didn't want to continue working on the business. Hard work is an underrated quality in a society that increasingly values ease and minimal effort.

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Success hinges on embracing hard work and finding joy in the grind.

The measure of whether someone will be successful or not often hinges on their attitude towards hard work. If they complain about how much work it is and express a desire for deals to simply fall into their lap, they are probably not going to be successful in buying a business. On the other hand, those who say they are willing to do the work tend to be more successful. Hard work is really an underrated quality in a society that often seems to promote a lack of effort and an expectation of receiving without giving.

One of my favorite questions to ask during interviews is, "When was the last time you worked all night on something by your choice, and what was it?" For instance, the last time I worked through the night was for a comics deadline that I had to pitch. This dedication is something many people might not relate to, as some have never worked through the night for something they were passionate about. While health experts like Brian Johnson advocate for adequate sleep, there is a unique joy in working on something that is both challenging and enjoyable.

My husband, a former Navy SEAL, has incredibly strong relationships with his comrades because they went through tough times together. This bond is almost unbreakable, and it highlights the importance of shared experiences in building strong connections. Today, many young people, especially women under 30, feel that not a single person truly knows them. This reflects a broader crisis of friendship, family, and faith in the U.S., leading to unprecedented levels of unhappiness and disconnection.

Arthur Brooks, who co-authored a book on happiness with Oprah, identifies four key determinants of happiness: Faith, Family, Friendships, and Work that serves a purpose. Decades of research at Harvard and AI support this, showing that people are more unhappy than ever because they feel disconnected and lack purpose.

In response to the idea that hard work is underappreciated, it’s interesting to see how it ties into broader themes of faith, family, and friendship. The question arises: Is it love first and hard work second, or is hard work an inescapable need? Everyone has experienced moments of misery in their work, leading to irrational decisions and a desire to quit. Reflecting on why hard work sometimes fails to bring happiness, it often boils down to a lack of learning, a loss of purpose, or working with people one does not aspire to be like. Hard work, when aligned with continuous learning, meaningful goals, and inspiring colleagues, can be immensely rewarding.

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Hard work feels fulfilling when you're learning, have a purpose, and are surrounded by inspiring people.

I know this: everyone has had a moment where they are so miserable working on something that they almost can't stand it any longer. They just want to quit, and sometimes they do quit, making irrational decisions because their misery gauge at work is so high. I've felt that before. If I go back and think about why that hard work did not make me happy, I believe it is at the moment when you feel like you have nothing else to learn. I coordinate hard work with learning; I am usually learning something if I am working hard at it. I also coordinate it with working on something that matters. If I have lost my why for why I am working, and lastly, if I am working with people that I don't aspire to be or don't want to be around, then the hard work feels futile, unnecessary, and more like labor than work. It's sort of this combination of people, purpose, and learning. If I have those three things, the hard work is really fun, but if I don't, it feels futile. I'll be curious to hear if this resonates with you.

There's a spiritual component to your mission to get people to consider buying small businesses. I've always known that was true, but I didn't know why. Now, teasing that stuff out, some of this is an aspect of a life well-lived for you. Did you ever work in a cubicle? Yes, I did. Did you work in a cubicle when you didn't work for yourself? Yes. Have you seen the Tucker Carlson response to postmodernist architecture? I've seen the headlines, but now you make me wish that I had clicked. It's beautiful; I can send you the clip afterwards if people are curious. Basically, he's in an interview and says postmodernist architecture is meant to suck your soul out. It's meant to demise humanity. Postmodernism is a direct affront to humanity; it wants to suck the human out of us. He ends it by saying, "and no privacy at all," very intensely, "it is because they do not value you. They do not value you as a human. You are a number, nothing else to them." That is why postmodernist cubicles demoralize humans because they show you with their actions that you mean nothing to them.

When I watched that, I thought, as a creator of things, which is how I think about building and what we do here too, everything that I put my name on is like a little piece of me. The things that I'm creating with my hands have a reason. I only have so many seconds, minutes, and hours in my life. We have very few of them. So why would we put our workers in these instances that show we don't care about them at all, that it's like copy, repeat, copy, repeat? I'm a capitalist, so I understand the idea of profits and losses and needing to be capital efficient. But I also really believe in humans and our ability to elevate one another. If I find Tom in his zone of genius, in a place that has power for Tom, I believe in the power of place. Then I will have a Tom that outperforms on an incredible level. I don't mean distractions, which is where I think Google and all of them got it wrong with foosball and nap chairs. We don't need to be children that when we stop working, we have to go play around with something else to distract ourselves from our work. We don't need that, but we do need to see beauty around us because we're capable of it. Why wouldn't we?

I think you're right; there is a part of this that is almost spiritual. The place where I found the most Flow State, just like athletes do when they do their craft, is when I'm caught in work that means something. For people to say you should have work-life balance and not work all the time because it is bad for your mental health, it's like, what do you know about what flow is? Is flow Netflixing and drinking on Friday evenings? It doesn't have to be, but if that's for you, let it be you, and I'll do me. That's not flow. Flow has a definition, but that probably isn't the important part here. The spirituality is. I can feel you trying to make the world a better place, which I love. It is very much why I do what I do. As I said earlier, I think we are in a battle for ideas. Everything is downstream of ideas, so they grip us at the individual level and the collective level. It really matters what we push.

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Hard work is essential because nature rewards it with a sense of fulfillment and progress.

Work-life balance is crucial; you should not work all the time because that is bad for your mental health. It's important to understand what flow is. Is flow Netflixing and drinking on Friday evenings? It doesn't have to be, but if that's what works for you, let it be. However, that's not flow. Flow has a definition, but that might not be the most important part here.

The important part is spirituality. I can feel you trying to make the world a better place, which I love. This is very much why I do what I do. As I said earlier, we are in a battle for ideas. Everything is downstream of ideas; they grip us at the individual level and at the collective level. It really matters what we push and promote. You have a unique stance on something that people might not be thinking about, something not currently in the Zeitgeist. The boring business, the gateway business, will make you realize that these are being run by people no smarter than you, to sort of co-opt the Steve Jobs quote.

I think that's really important, and marrying that back to your message is crucial. People need to understand that you, Cody Sanchez, are trying to reach out into their souls and help them find the path to the thing they secretly want, which I, Tom Bilyeu, will round to fulfillment. I think that's what everybody wants.

I have a mental framework for why hard work is so important. We have an evolutionary algorithm that mandates we work hard. Nature only has two levers: pleasure and pain. Over hundreds of thousands, millions of years, nature has been shaping us from amoeba to now, saying surviving is going to be hard. Nature's job is to keep you alive long enough to have kids that have kids. There are certain things nature will incentivize. If you get a tremendous dopamine rush when you work really hard and make progress towards a goal, you'll want to do that.

If you ever watched the TV show Alone, it gives a real glimpse into what all of humanity was like until about a thousand years ago. It's hysterical how hard it is to stay alive, to just find enough calories to live. You don't have to read much history to understand that even a hundred years ago, survival was a struggle. Life was a level of hard that we don't understand today. Evolution had to make doing hard things internally rewarding, so we have this algorithm that says, "Oh, you work really hard? Well done, good on you." If you aren't working hard, it will feel wrong.

Entropy is another factor. All things are fighting against you. If you want to jump high, gravity yanks you back down. If you want to start a business, other people will start similar businesses. If you're doing well, people will copy you. One of my favorite stories from our time at Quest: when we launched Quest, we looked ridiculous compared to other companies in the health and nutrition space. They all aimed at bodybuilders with a "veins and chains" aesthetic—tough guys, big muscles, veins bulging, chains draped around their necks, red and black colors. We decided to be everything that was not. We chose blue because it peaks creativity, and we used food porn to feel welcoming and inviting. We did so well that three years later, I walked to someone else's booth at a trade show because I thought it was ours. They had copied everything we were doing.

Everything is fighting against you, and if you don't get real pleasure out of working hard, you won't be able to overcome entropy. There are just so many things fighting against you.

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If you want to succeed in business, you need to find joy in hard work and constantly push your limits.

I'm really doubling up on my learning from the psychopath day here, but he just lays out like, "Oh, this has a certain psychological reaction." So we're like, "We're going to be everything that that's not. We're going to be blue because it peaks creativity. We're going to be food porn. We want to feel welcoming and inviting." We did so well that three years later, I walked to somebody else's booth at a trade show because I thought it was ours. I was like, "These [__] have literally just copied everything that we're doing."

Anyway, you get everything fighting against you, and if you don't get real pleasure out of working hard, you just won't ever be able to overcome entropy. There are just so many things fighting against you. To be able to run a business is really about hard work and what I call the physics of progress, which is just iteration. It's very important that you do the steps, but if you can work hard and run the physics of progress, you really can pull this off.

I think people need to contextualize this as a spiritual journey. I'm doing this as somebody who's pursuing fulfillment. I'm doing this as somebody who looks out at this particular moment, which I certainly do, and I think you share, and we're at a tipping point for the wrong ideas taking hold of people. We're talking about business, recession, etc., but this is really about what ideas should win. Hard work and recognizing you can buy a business if you so choose, if autonomy is a major driver for you, could be a real path out.

If people fail, if they just hear the cha-ching of the cash register and don't understand that you're speaking to their soul as much as you're speaking to their pocketbook, they'll get lost. One of the best books of all time for that is Atlas Shrugged, which has had some political connotation, which I don't know why. It really is about the joy in finding the thing that you are uniquely built to create on this planet. There's one quote I love from it that summarizes it: "What a tragedy to let your spark go out, spark by irreplaceable spark, in the shadows of the could-bes, the what-ifs, the maybes."

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That always stuck with me, this idea of showing up at the Pearly Gates rung dry, saying to God, "I had not one drop left," which was a paraphrase from an Emma Bombeck quote that I go back to a lot. It's about having this curiosity for yourself about what else you are capable of doing, which is so powerful.

I was just at lunch with one of my team members and my husband, and we were talking about the hardest thing we've ever done. We talked first about physical challenges. I remember one of mine was hiking a mountain. It was super miserable; it was blizzarding, it was a very high mountain, there were creases, and it turns out I don't like hiking, the cold, or heights. It was miserable; you had to poop in a bag. It was not fun for multiple days. You lost me at pooping in a bag, but I'm glad I did it because I need to have more of those hard moments to realize how lucky we have it in life.

I do think we, as humans, kind of forget how lucky we have it. We have such short-term memory to history, which we do not study enough, and even to our own history, remembering what we've been through before and thus are probably capable of doing in the future. I remember we have a company called Main Street Holding Company, where we own all of our small businesses and buy or invest in other businesses.

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The hardest moments in life build resilience and reveal our true selves.

It turns out I don't like hiking, I don't like the cold, and I don't like heights. It was just miserable; you had to poop in a bag, and it was just not fun for multiple days. You lost me at pooping in a bag. However, I'm glad I did it because I need to have more of those hard moments to realize how lucky we have it in life. I do think as humans, we kind of forget how lucky we have it. We have such short-term memory to history, which we do not study enough, and even to our own history, remembering what we've been through before and thus are probably capable of doing in the future.

I remember we have a company called Main Street Holding Company, where we own all of our small businesses, and that's where we buy or invest in other people's businesses. Almost every single one of those businesses had a moment where I thought we were going to lose everything. I remember one company where we got all of our money stolen from a guy we thought we were best buds with, and how much that hurt. I remember when we had our first car wash deal go through, and we thought we were going to sell for a huge amount of money, but the whole thing fell through. We almost didn't have the grit to keep going. It's like seeing the marathon right in front of you end, and then all of a sudden, they're like, just get in 10 more miles. We weren't ready for that.

All of those hard moments build you up and enable you to keep going. You build up these calluses, just like weights at the gym; at some point, you don't feel them as much. Anytime I feel it too much, I go to a book from a great. For example, I'm reading Ted Turner's book "Call Me Ted" right now, and it's incredible. He goes through his difficulties like it's a regular Tuesday. He says, "Well, then we lost $100 million on the games over there," and then he literally moves to the next line. I rewound it a couple of times and said to myself, I want to be so big and have created so much wealth and prosperity that I can say we lost $100 million on that. Think about that. There's a guy out there who thinks that way. For those who are against making money and think the world's going to end due to climate change, what did Turner do with his billions? He owns the biggest bison preserve in the world and has single-handedly brought back the bison population in his area, which I think is Wyoming. So, guess what? Money can do a lot of good too.

The single hardest thing I've ever done was get divorced. That was emotionally the hardest thing I've ever done. You make a promise to somebody, you say you're going to be together for life, and then you break that promise. I tend to try to keep my promises, so that was really hard for me. Yes, I initiated it. Realizing that when you're young and your prefrontal cortex is not fully developed, you listen to what everybody else says your life should be, as opposed to having your own internal guiding frameworks, creed, and vision for life. It's very easy for somebody else to supersede theirs on top of you. I allowed my family’s and my mom's expectations to supersede mine. I tried to be a painting that somebody else painted, as opposed to my own. I think that happens to a lot of young people because we don't spend that much time asking ourselves who we want to be, what we stand for, what our name means, and what we actually want to work towards. Time would be better spent in universities if we focused more on that, as opposed to amoebas and Pythagorean theorems.

How do you come to know thyself? Honestly, I don't know another way besides doing things so hard that it feels uncomfortable constantly and then deciding if you want to keep doing those things or not. I've only ever learned about myself through negation. I don't like this because I tried it and that wasn't great. I'm not smart enough to go, I like that and I want to go after that. I kind of have to trial the things and realize I don't like them.

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Discover yourself through trial and error, prioritize ruthlessly, and structure your day for maximum productivity.

What do we stand for? What does our name mean? What do we actually want to work towards? Time would be better spent in universities if we focused more on these questions rather than on amebas and Pythagorean theorems. How do you come to know thyself? I honestly don't know another way besides doing things so hard that it feels uncomfortable constantly, and then deciding if you want to keep doing those things or not. I've only ever learned about myself through negation: I don't like this because I tried it and that wasn't great. I'm not smart enough to go, "I like that and I want to go after that." I kind of have to trial things and realize I don't like them, and then I sort of ping-pong my way to finally something that I think is me.

I think that's a lot of us too, and it's okay to have varied career paths. It's okay to make a lot of mistakes; just try not to make ones that are lifetime early. I'm a big proponent of marriage; being married is the best thing that ever happened to me this go-round, and the strongest partner I have by far has ever been Chris in any sense of the word. But I probably wouldn't have made that decision that early without fully knowing myself through having gone through a lot of hard things and realizing what I was willing or not willing to continue.

You've got to get your calendar right. If your calendar doesn't reflect your actual priorities, you're in real trouble. I keep a list that I call "important things," and the important things are what is the most important thing that I could be working on right now. I will just tell any stage entrepreneur, but certainly beginning stage entrepreneurs, you're going to have trouble prioritizing. The reason you're going to have trouble prioritizing is because you think you're dumb, but in reality, the problem is no one's good at prioritizing until they've done it a lot. Then you begin to get a sense of, "Okay, this is the lead domino. If I do this thing, it'll make everything that comes after it easier." You'll start to identify those things and do them until you can't do them anymore, either from fatigue or there's just nothing more to do, and now you're waiting for somebody to come back to you. Then you move on to the second thing. But I find everybody gets paralyzed by not knowing what to put in first place, so now you have seven things in first place. I constantly fight with my team about this: stop being weak. What's number one? Allow yourself to be emotionally paralyzed because you think, "Oh, it's all important." Yes, but you can only execute on one thing at a time, so what's that one thing? I'm ruthless about that.

The beginning of my day: I'm up usually at 4:00 or 4:30 in the morning. I don't let anybody on my schedule until 9:00 a.m., 9:30 if I can push it. Then I don't let anybody on my schedule after 1:00 p.m. I like that. There's a narrow window where I've already gotten four to five hours worth of work in the beginning. I'm doing my most important work, all execution. Then I take meetings, make sure everybody's moving, and they have whatever questions they need answered. Then I'm in it; I'm in product and marketing. Those are the two things I'm obsessively focused on, so I'm available and with the team.

During COVID: I was like, "Go wherever you want. You can move away, no big deal." Now I'm like, "You better get in the office." We are back in a big way. It is so inefficient to not have people here. We just bought an office in Austin for the same reason. I have an incredible team because they'll be really honest about it. One of the guys on my team who runs part of the creative thing said, "Yeah, I just don't work as hard when I'm not in the office." I can't believe he said that to my face, but also thank you. I think it's true because most of us have willpower issues, and all of us can benefit from a little eye over the shoulder.

The reason why I think we can really benefit: I remember when I was at Goldman Sachs, and they were watching us like crazy. I was never on social media, never slacking off because I wanted to get out of that office. I knew I was going to have to do long hours, and I wanted to get out of there when I was done. I never understood the Silicon Valley foosball, make-them-stay-here-all-the-time thing.

=> 00:39:44

Focus intensely, avoid distractions, and be true to yourself for maximum productivity.

One of the guys on my team, who runs part of the creative department, was really honest with me. He said, "Yeah, I just don't work as hard when I'm not in the office." I couldn't believe he said that to my face, but I also appreciated his honesty. I think it's true because most of us have willpower issues and can benefit from a little oversight.

I remember when I was at Goldman Sachs, they were watching us like crazy. I was never on social media or slacking off because I wanted to get out of the office as soon as I was done with my long hours. I never understood the Silicon Valley approach of having foosball tables to make employees stay longer. My philosophy is to work intensely, maybe take a workout or walk break, and then go live your life. If you're like me, you'll end up working more, but when you're at work, you should be so singularly focused that all distractions fade away. This way, you actually work less because you're more effective.

Early in my career, I couldn't stay at Vanguard because I was struggling. I was like those ducks that paddle like crazy underwater but look smooth on the surface. I didn't know anything about finance, coming from a journalism background, and everyone seemed smarter than me. One of my teammates tried to talk to me about lunch plans, and I had to tell them, "I'm focused, I don't have time to talk about this right now." This happened a few times, and I wasn't trying to be a jerk; I just couldn't afford to lose focus. My boss eventually told me that my team thought I would leave dead bodies behind me because I didn't pay attention to them or participate in party planning. But I was just trying to do my job with singular focus.

As a CEO now, I realize I have to make people feel a bit more warm and fuzzy. However, I've found that you are who you are, and trying to be someone else comes off as inauthentic. I'm aggressive but fun, and I do something every Monday called "The Compass," a 10-minute PowerPoint presentation for the whole team. It includes our culture code, highlights of our 13 values, and some fun stuff. I cheerlead the company during this period, but when someone needs a hug, they know not to come to me.

Despite not being warm and fuzzy, I've always taken care of my people. If you're good to your teammates and the company, I will have your back. If you need a new job, I'll help you find one. If you have a health issue, I'll take care of you. I also hire people who fit our culture. During interviews, I'm very upfront about the pressures and challenges of working with us. I ask candidates about their favorite moments of pressure and when they did something unreasonable to achieve a goal. Our interviews start with all the terrible things about the company and why I might be awful to work with.

=> 00:43:32

Culture is the secret sauce to building a winning team and achieving big goals.

If you have a health issue, I'm going to take care of you, but I don't think you have to be warm and fuzzy. I also hire a lot of people, and we're really honest about who we are in interviews, which I think is really important. For instance, I was a terrible employee at Vanguard because they're super touchy-feely, kind of socialists, and I preferred Goldman Sachs, where I liked the capitalist kind of jerks who are really smart. I wanted the pressure. So now, when people come and interview with us, I ask them to talk to me about their favorite moment of pressure and when they did something that felt unreasonable to achieve a goal. I tell them upfront that our interviews start with all the things that are terrible about the company and why I'm awful to work for. If they still like it after that, then they might be a win; otherwise, at least they know.

We have a very similar approach with our culture document. You can't come into an interview unless you've read it. I've had multiple people say we've lost a lot of candidates when they read the culture doc, and I'm like, that's the point. I want them to know who we are, and if you're not about that life, then this is not the place for you. I am trying to win a championship, nothing short. I'm not trying to be an also-ran or play for a participation trophy. I'm flat out trying to beat Disney, which is a big task with low odds of success. I want to have fun but also be surrounded by hardcore people who are here to win, and the document says exactly that. It is very aggressive, and we have weeded people out because of it. But what I always say to people who question if it's too aggressive is that it found you. The favorite thing about this company is the people because we are a very specific flavor. If you like our flavor, we will be the favorite place you've ever worked; if not, we will be trash.

For any entrepreneurs out there, let me tell you right now: culture is one of the most important things. Product-market fit and making more money than you spend are more important, but culture is crucial for retention, employees enjoying their work, and getting things done in a way that you're proud of. Lisa and I ran the experiment of what it looks like when you don't have the right culture, and it was awful. Not liking being at your own company is really lame. So when we founded Impact Theory, we decided that culture was going to be a main thing that we hire against and hold people accountable to.

We have something inspired by Ray Dalio, who built the largest hedge fund in the world. He has this thing in his culture called dots, where everybody can give everyone else a score on 30 different criteria. We have a bunch of those criteria as part of our culture doc, like people being hardcore, etc., so we can all rank each other.

What I find fascinating is that the stuff I ignored when I was poor or not where I wanted to be is the stuff that makes you millions and then tens of millions of dollars, like culture and leadership. I used to think I was just here to get a job done, get rich, and do the thing. But when I'm with builders who have built a lot, they all want to talk about the same stuff: how to get more humans to want to do the things you want them to do, culture and leadership. If people want real success and want to do it in a way where they're not killing themselves all day, those two words are among the most important in the English language.

What's funny is if we did a YouTube video titled "How to Build a $100 Million Culture," people would be like "snooze." But if you title it "How to Make a Million Dollars with Vending Machines in 30 Days," it would get millions of views. However, the first one, 100 million culture, is so much more valuable than the vending machine video. If you can push through what the world wants you to listen to, which is literally the candy, the vending machine, the sweets, and actually focus on the important stuff...

=> 00:47:20

You don't have to be the CEO to be the heart and soul of your team.

To get more humans to want to do the things you want them to do, focus on culture and leadership. If people want to achieve real success without exhausting themselves, these two words are among the most important in the English language. It's interesting to note that if a YouTube video were titled "How to Build a $100 Million Culture," it might not attract much attention. However, a video titled "How to Make a Million Dollars with Vending Machines in 30 Days" would likely garner millions of views. Yet, the former, about building a $100 million culture, is far more valuable than the latter. If you can push through the distractions the world offers, like the metaphorical candy and vending machines, and instead focus on the substantial, like eating broccoli, that's where all the magic happens.

Recently, I attended the 40th anniversary of Navy SEAL Team Three, where my husband served. We toured the new base, which was incredible. We saw halls filled with gear from friends who were killed in action, including a flag with my husband's name that was taken from ISIS. It was a heavy but remarkable experience. From a business perspective, what struck me was listening to five speakers, including Admiral McRaven, one of the most respected living team members, and Johnny Kim, a Navy SEAL, astronaut, and doctor. Despite their impressive credentials, the most memorable speech came from the chief enlisted guy, who isn't the highest-ranking member but is considered the heart and soul of the team.

At the end of the ceremony, he brought out 12 team members in full gear, each representing a fallen comrade. They called out the names of the deceased, followed by a loud "hurah" and a machine gun salute. This emotional and powerful moment set the tone for the entire event. It showed that you don't have to be at the top to be the person everyone remembers and looks up to. This lesson is crucial for anyone, whether they're at the top of their organization or not. The heart and soul of a team can come from any level, and this has stuck with me ever since.

As someone who walked an unconventional path and started with nothing, the journey from being an ordinary team member to running something significant is fascinating. We have a saying, "we do the work," which encapsulates the essence of this journey.

=> 00:51:21

You don't need to be the CEO to be the heart and soul of the team; show up, work harder, and make a difference.

Sometimes, people think they have to be the CEO or the head of the team, like MC McRaven, to make a significant impact. However, there's a role often referred to as the heart and soul of the team, which is equally important. This concept is crucial for team members and listeners who aren't at the top. You don't have to be at the top to be the person everyone goes to. This idea has stuck with me ever since I first encountered it, and it's really powerful.

As someone who walked a very unconventional path and started with nothing, you might wonder how to go from being just another team member to running something significant. We have a saying, "we do the work," which is well-known and something we emphasize at Contrarian Thinking too. One of the easiest ways to get ahead is through the curse of competence. There are very few competent, hardworking, and driven people in this world, more than most realize. You've probably seen it before: when someone goes just 10% more than the norm, it's pretty rare.

Consider how many people you've encountered who didn't impress you, just blending in with everyone else. Then, there's the person who arrives before everyone else and stays a little later, maybe just 10 minutes on both ends. They submit a brief and an update without being asked. This is about doing the work and being that one competent human in an ocean of complacent individuals.

The second surprising thing about success is that most people express their desires as hopes rather than wills. My husband and I discuss this often. He has an annoying saying, "are you a good white shark or a great white shark?" He often says this when we're working out, which is when I really want to murder him. It's a little family motto: are you going to be good, or are you going to be great? The difference between good and great is just 10%, and nobody strives for it.

For those listening, consider how easy it is to be 10% earlier and stay 10% later than everyone else at your company for six months. Watch what happens. If that doesn't get noticed, move to the next company or build your own in the extra time you have. This approach worked for me at Goldman Sachs, where I got recognized by the most senior director and subsequently had multiple job opportunities. I wasn't smarter than anyone else, didn't attend fancy schools, and didn't have an MBA at the time. I just worked slightly harder, was competent, and did a bit more than everyone else.

When someone is aggressive, working harder than others, and clearly wants it, it's a joy to be around them. There's a thrill in being around people who show up and play to win. It's intoxicating for the right person. I love that so much, and it can get people a lot farther than they think.

Now, how did I start learning? Do I have a process for learning new things? I wasn't initially a finance person but transitioned from journalism to Goldman Sachs. What I've found is that most people don't ask questions because they fear looking dumb. However, as a journalist, I was trained to ask questions, and the better the question, the better the results. I never associated asking questions with looking dumb. In fact, I don't care to this day; I ask stupid questions all the time.

=> 00:55:26

Asking questions is the key to learning and success—never be afraid to ask, even if it seems dumb.

Straight up, Goldman Sachs obviously. There was something in the middle, but how did you go down the process of learning something that you did not previously know at all? What I've been amazed by in life is that most people don't ask questions; they pretend like they know things. Yes, at the top all the way to the bottom. Why? Because they think that if they ask questions, they look dumb. What I found is I was trained as a journalist to do one thing: ask questions. Actually, the better the question, the better the results. As a journalist, that's all, that's the only thing. So, I never associated asking questions with looking dumb. In fact, I don't care to this day. I ask stupid questions all the time.

In fact, when we look at a deal, I'll often say, "Explain to me this like I'm six." If they bring me a very large deal, Sam Zell was famous for this. I'm a big Sam Zell fan. He wrote "Am I Being Too Subtle?" They called him the Grave Dancer. He was famous for turnarounds of real estate businesses. He would take them out of the grave, and they would say he danced on it. He would take these businesses that were going to fail and then turn them around and build them to something huge. Sam just passed away actually. Famously, when they would bring him a deal, like a multi-hundred million deal they were going to do, one deal they threw in front of him, big deal, had a deal book, professional, all these stats and everything, he just flipped it back to them and said, "Should we do the deal?" The guy's like, "Well, I have 400 pages prepared here," and he goes, "Give this deal to me in a one-page brief, and then I'll know you understand it."

Facts, facts, facts. So important. Oh my God. I'm constantly telling people, "Say your thesis in a single sentence." Because if you can't say it in a single sentence, you don't understand it. And I realize this for myself too. In fact, if you want to get ahead quickly, associating yourself with people who already have the things that you want is really important. One of the easiest ways to do that back in corporate land was everybody fought for one job, and that was the Chief of Staff job. You wanted to be Chief of Staff to one of the senior leaders. The reason why is because you learned what they care about and how do you learn what they care about from the daily briefs you put together for them. You actually got a way to steal their 10,000 hours by looking at the very few things that they looked at every day that determined what was important for them.

So, briefing has become really important at my company, and people get annoyed with me on this. She gonna say, "I need to do briefs like this." Sound, you need to do briefs. This sounds hot, dude. Let me tell you, there's nothing sexier than a hot brief. It's funny because my team the other day, there's this one woman on our team, I'll shout her out, Mati, who does incredible briefs. Why does that matter? Because it shows me how you think, and the way that you think tells me how you work, and how you work tells me what you prioritize. These briefs are incredible. The best way to learn them is you can actually see examples of the President's Daily Brief. Who could have a more succinct, important daily brief than the President of the United States? A lot of my team will look at that, and they'll also look at briefs for some of the largest CEOs out there. If you have a team at all, get them in the habit of doing this, and that, I think, is an incredible skill to get good at.

When you're going about learning something, for me anyway, it's really rudimentary. I need to know the terms, so that's going to be the first thing. In fact, I went on a similar journey for a very different reason. When hit, I realized the people, going back to all my time in the inner cities, I was like, they're going to get obliterated. I didn't understand money printing yet, so I just thought they're [__]. So, I was like, okay, I've got to find a really tactical, personal finance vein to get people in on the show so that I can help. But I didn't understand finance at all. I'm good at making money; I'm not good at investing money. So, I was like, okay, I'm going to start learning about this, bringing people on. All that starts with learning the lexicon, figuring out who the players are, and doing what I call reading in swarms. Now, reading could be YouTube, whatever. You're just taking a topic, you're trying to see it from as many angles as possible.

=> 00:59:08

Dive into new fields by immersing yourself where the experts are and asking questions—curiosity opens doors.

In fact, I went on a similar journey for a very different reason. When I realized the impact on people, especially those in inner cities, I thought they were going to get obliterated. I didn't understand money printing yet, so I just thought they were doomed. I decided I needed to find a really tactical personal finance vein to get people in on the show so that I could help. However, I didn't understand finance at all. I'm good at making money, but I'm not good at investing money. So, I decided to start learning about this by bringing people on the show.

All of this starts with learning the lexicon, figuring out who the players are, and doing what I call reading in swarms. Reading could be YouTube or any other medium where you're just taking a topic and trying to see it from as many different angles as humanly possible. Have you ever seen those sculptures made out of trash that you can only see what they are from one specific angle? That's life. If you're looking at business from the wrong angle, it looks like a big crazy mystery. It might even seem like Klaus Schwab is an evil madman trying to take over. But once you start twisting it around, you realize it's just a bunch of people who think they're smarter than they are and should learn to distrust themselves.

Once it clicks into place and you realize that Steve Jobs was right—the world is created by people no smarter than you—then you start seeing how things really are. To do that, you have to see it from a lot of different angles. When I'm reading about a topic, I'm trying to get as many different perspectives on that thing as I can so that I can triangulate what the truth really is. Once I have that and a sense of what this is, I'll formulate my own hypothesis. The hypothesis will make predictions, and then I go test that prediction. If the prediction is accurate, then I know that I'm actually understanding this.

This approach applies whether you're talking about business or romance. Your brain is a prediction engine. Once you realize that, it becomes very hard to discern what is objectively true. Even at the level of physics, we don't know objective truth. So, you get into perspective and interpretation. All of these things make a prediction. If you think doing something will get a specific outcome, do it. If you get that outcome, then your understanding and mental map of the world are pretty close. If you try it and get something completely different, you need to understand your mental model is broken.

If you point to other people or external factors like the economy, remember that Kobe Bryant could dunk regardless of how much someone tried to trip him up or how bad the economy was. There is always a solution to the puzzle; you just didn't find it. If you can own that, update your mental model, and try again, recognizing it as a prediction engine, that's how you learn any new thing.

Does that sound roughly analogous to what you do? Actually, I think I am much less scientific about this. When I want to start learning something, I just go where the game is played and get in. In the beginning, I didn't understand finance and wasn't smart enough to do what you said—reading in swarms and finding predictive models. Instead, I thought, where are smart finance people? I found a company called Vanguard and thought, could I get a job there?

The funny thing about humans is they love to hear themselves talk. One of the secrets to getting into places is to ask a lot of questions. At the time, I sat next to a lady named Tara and asked her what she did. She said securities, and I thought she meant security as in guarding something, but she was actually talking about financial securities.

To be fair, I was at a conference to learn about finance, not applying for a job at Vanguard. I was at the conference because I wanted to get into finance, even though I didn't know anything about it.

=> 01:02:44

Curiosity and genuine interest can open doors and create opportunities even if you start with zero knowledge.

At the time, I sat next to this lady named Tara. I asked her, "So, what do you do?" She replied, "Securities," and I thought she meant security work, like she had a gun. But she was actually talking about financial securities. To clarify, I was sitting at a conference next to her, not applying for a job at Vanguard. I was at a finance conference to learn about finance because I wanted to get into the field, even though I didn't know much about it.

I sat next to Tara and got curious about her job, asking her all about Vanguard and what she does. I wrote down her answers, essentially getting the cheat code to what a hiring manager at Vanguard cares about. Unlike most people, I wasn't just talking at her; I was genuinely interested and focused on her. I followed up with an email, expressing how amazing it was to talk to her and listing three things I learned. I suggested having coffee again, during which I asked more questions. Eventually, she asked me to apply for a rotational development program at Vanguard.

Despite not knowing what a security or a mutual fund was, my curiosity set me apart. This approach worked again when I wanted to get into content. I talked to people who knew about content, learning on someone else's dime. A job today can be like a free MBA, one that pays you. Vanguard, for instance, spends $100,000 on training per employee, and I was making $30,000 a year, essentially getting a free MBA and three licenses that I still carry.

I believe people should get a job working for someone they can learn from, go where the game is played, and be around top performers. Scientific research shows that being surrounded by top performers increases your performance by 15%, while being around underperformers decreases it by 30%. If you're in a company with underperformers, find one where it's challenging. The same applies to your social circle; being around top performers can significantly increase your earnings.

People often don't realize the importance of their environment. For example, Goldman Sachs is an amazing place for a young, hungry person because of the top performers and the pressure, which is essential for growth. The big problem is that people don't know what their ultimate goal is, or as I put it, they don't know what their "God" is.

=> 01:06:27

Surround yourself with top performers to boost your earnings by 45% and sharpen your skills—diamonds are made under pressure.

Being around top performers can significantly impact your earnings, with an increase of 45% compared to being around underperformers. This is something most people don't consider. For instance, despite the criticism, Goldman Sachs is an amazing place for a young, hungry person because it surrounds them with top performers who can push them to earn more and excel. This pressure is akin to how diamonds are made, emphasizing the importance of the environment in professional growth.

A significant issue is that people often don't know what drives them. To make this memorable, consider the term "God" in this context, where utility is my "God." If you're pursuing something honorable and meaningful, your focus should naturally be on utility. This concept is crucial because, as Thomas Sowell highlights, the last 30 years have seen a shift from valuing work to what merely sounds good. This shift is problematic because it abandons actual usefulness and progress.

Understanding what motivates reasoning is essential. Everyone's reasoning is driven by something, and recognizing this can clarify many debates. For example, in the context of postmodernism, which is motivated by power, the brutalist architecture style—characterized by heavy concrete and minimal windows—can be seen as a statement of power. This style, reminiscent of Soviet-era buildings, signifies dominance and control, reinforcing the idea that "we are bigger, better, stronger than you."

In discussions, it's crucial to uncover the base assumptions driving someone's rationale. For instance, in the documentary "What is a Woman?" the lunacy perceived could be mitigated by asking about the underlying assumptions. In business, this approach is akin to the physics of progress, where you form a hypothesis to achieve a goal, which then makes predictions. By treating statements as predictions, you can test their validity. For example, if someone advocates for giving puberty blockers to a young child, it predicts that self-professed identity is paramount, even warranting medical risks. By confirming these assumptions, you can test their predictions against data to see if they hold true.

However, if the real motivation behind their thinking is different, presenting data might not change their stance. This highlights the importance of genuinely understanding and questioning the base assumptions to drive meaningful conversations and decisions.

=> 01:10:44

To make real progress in debates, reflect people's beliefs back to them clearly and test their assumptions with data.

The discussion revolves around the potential risks and benefits of allowing individuals to undergo gender-affirming surgery. The conversation starts with the acknowledgment that such surgeries carry some risk of complication and death. The speaker suggests that denying individuals the ability to express their gender through physiological changes could lead to an increased rate of suicide. This hypothesis is testable, as it predicts that individuals are more likely to die if they do not undergo the surgery. The speaker emphasizes the importance of looking at the data to verify this prediction.

However, the speaker also notes that if this is a red herring—meaning it is not the true motivation behind the argument—then presenting data will not change minds. For instance, if data shows an increase in the likelihood of suicide post-surgery, and people still insist on the surgery for other reasons, it indicates that the initial argument was not the true concern. This scenario is compared to business situations where people provide shifting reasons for their actions, making it difficult to address the core issue.

The speaker stresses the importance of understanding base assumptions and whether the predictions based on these assumptions come true. This approach helps avoid arguments at the level of fact and instead focuses on underlying values and assumptions. The speaker refers to this as trapping people in their own values—asking them to state their values and then examining whether their actions lead to those values.

An extreme example is given with Hitler, who openly stated his values and plans, leading to predictable and horrific actions. By bringing values and beliefs to the forefront, it becomes possible to have a clear discussion about their implications.

The speaker advises reflecting people's beliefs and values back to them in a way they recognize, ensuring that nothing is hidden and progress can be made. To understand and influence the world efficiently and without emotion, the speaker recommends reading a book like Statistics for Dummies. This is because many people do not understand statistics and probabilities, which drive business, wealth, and the economy. Additionally, following the scientific method—forming a hypothesis, testing it, and analyzing the results—is crucial. These skills, although taught in school, were not the focus of education, with more emphasis often placed on subjects like calculus rather than statistics.

=> 01:14:30

Understanding statistics and the scientific method is crucial for making informed decisions and not getting misled by emotions or narratives.

To influence the world around them quickly, efficiently, and without emotion, individuals should consider reading a book like Statistics for Dummies. This is crucial because many people do not understand statistics or probabilities, nor do they know how to interpret the numbers presented to them in a global context. Statistics drive business, wealth, and the economy. Additionally, being able to follow the scientific method is equally important. This involves forming a hypothesis, testing it, and understanding the process behind it. Although these concepts are taught in school, they are often not the focus. For instance, many people recall learning more calculus than statistics, despite the latter being more practical for everyday decision-making.

Statistics do not have to involve deep mathematical learning; they can be about understanding assumptions and interpreting the math behind the scenes. A lack of understanding in these areas often leads people to be misled by false information because they rely on what feels or sounds good rather than what actually works. Thomas Sowell is a genius in this regard, and his book Economic Facts and Fallacies is highly recommended. Similarly, Statistics for Dummies is a good starting point for those who need a foundation in understanding data.

A common example is the misuse of averages. For instance, when asked about the average income of Americans, the presence of outliers like Bill Gates can skew the average significantly. In such cases, using the median instead of the average would provide a more accurate representation. This concept is not mathematically difficult to grasp and can be a starting point for understanding more complex topics.

In today's world, the phrase "he who holds the best story wins" is often true because people do not know how to critically evaluate arguments. To be successful, one must understand whether someone is lying or presenting verifiable information, which can be determined through statistics and the scientific method.

From a business perspective, every business operates under constraints and does not have unlimited resources. For someone starting out with limited funds, understanding statistics is crucial to determine where to invest money for the best returns. Business decisions are essentially about probabilities and statistics, aiming to maximize profits, opportunities, and better decision-making. The scientific method is also vital in business as it helps uncover the truth behind claims and ideas.

In the content business, for example, defining what constitutes a "good video" is essential. At our company, a good video is defined as one that gets the most views. This baseline helps ensure everyone is on the same page. However, debates can arise about the nature of the content, such as whether certain types of controversial or inappropriate videos should be considered good based on view counts alone.

=> 01:18:14

Clarity in definitions is crucial for meaningful conversations and successful outcomes in business.

Underneath the things people tell you, there are often deeper meanings and implications. For instance, in our content business, I come from a finance background and push back really hard on ideas. Recently, we had an argument about the importance of words and their specific meanings. Words mean things; if we don't agree on the definition of a word, we can't actually have a conversation. For example, what constitutes a "good" video? People might have different definitions, so I proposed that at our company, a good video is one that gets the most views. We needed a baseline: a good video at our company is the one that gets the most views. This led to a debate about various types of videos, including inappropriate content. I clarified that because we have our Creed and values, we would never produce such videos. Understanding our values and beliefs allows us to decide on a quantitative determination of the word "good" in the context of video views.

If we don't establish clear definitions, we face a huge problem. Personal tastes vary, much like how people order different dishes at a restaurant. In business, getting definitional is crucial. Taste is difficult to define, so we should use terms like "does it convert" or "does it make money." If a video gets views, it is tasteful according to our standards. Many people today dislike strict definitions, preferring ambiguity, but this hinders meaningful conversations and agreement on outcomes. The other day, I insisted on discussing the meaning of a specific word, despite others wanting to move on. Continuous clarification across the company is necessary to ensure we all agree on the same foundation.

This generation often avoids tough conversations, but arguing over the meaning of a single word is essential. I once had a huge debate with my company, where I was against everyone else. Although it felt like I was burning relationship capital, it was necessary to agree on the definition of a word. The reason for this insistence aligns with the idea that the world works in a certain way, much of which is hidden behind a curtain. My life's goal, and the purpose of my show, is to uncover what's behind that curtain.

Finding truth is difficult because we all wear what I call "whole life beer goggles," interpreting reality differently. Two people can look at the same thing and see something completely different due to the algorithms running in their brains. Words, narrative, and even data shape our perception and control our lives. If your narrative doesn't make accurate predictions, it's broken. Therefore, identifying a lie matters because it affects how we interpret and interact with the world.

=> 01:22:05

Your life is controlled by how you interpret the things before you; if your narrative doesn't make accurate predictions, it's broken.

We all wear what I call Whole Life beer goggles, which means we cannot see what's really there; we're interpreting what's there. Two people can look at the exact same thing and see something completely different. I could explain how this happens from an evolutionary standpoint, but for now, let's just say there are algorithms running in your brain that control how you perceive the inputs coming in.

If the world works in a certain way, and words matter, and narrative matters, and even data can become narrative at some point, your life is controlled by how you interpret the things before you. What narrative you're telling yourself is crucial. If your narrative doesn't make accurate predictions, it's broken. The reason identifying a lie matters is because it breaks your prediction engine. If you want to make money in business, statistics are going to be your best friend because you have to understand which actions will have the bigger impact. You're asking yourself a question of predictive ability: based on what you know, if you do this one thing, will you get the outcome you want? But if your worldview is messed up or if there's something you don't understand, you will choose the wrong thing.

People often have no idea how to choose because they don't know how they think, where they're being lied to, or how to dissect the information coming in. They don't know how to test hypotheses. When someone puts something forward, it makes a prediction. If you stop and ask, "What prediction does that statement make?" and then, "Is this true?" you might worry about looking stupid. If you just nod and smile, you might accept a false answer. If you're unafraid to look stupid and you say, "For what you just said to be true, the following base assumption also has to be true," and ask, "Is that true?" or "Is that prediction accurate?" you can get to the truth. Either the person is wrong, which happens more often than you think, even with experts, or you don't understand something. If you don't understand, keep asking questions until you do.

Understanding someone's worldview or statement involves recognizing the predictions it makes and verifying their accuracy. Once you understand, you can't be bamboozled, and that's the only way to get good at business. This is why specialists and generalists both have their strengths. Specialists, like those who buy businesses all day long, have deep expertise. Generalists, like myself, can launch courses on business decision-making that solve real problems in real-time by thinking from first principles.

In my course, I would say to a small group, "Bring me your hardest business problem, and we'll solve it in real-time." We would walk through the process, asking questions about predictions and making progress week after week. While people might think they want specific skills like copywriting or funnel marketing, which are finite and teachable, the real skill that makes an entrepreneur great is the ability to solve novel problems. These are problems no one has seen before, requiring you to build up from first principles to think through them. However, this is the hardest thing to sell because it's like vitamins versus painkillers; people want immediate solutions to known problems.

=> 01:25:37

The true power of an entrepreneur lies in solving novel problems, not just in mastering finite skills.

Week after week, we keep progressing, tackling the next problem head-on. We go through each issue in a live-fire manner. I often tell people that while they may think they need copywriting or funnel marketing, these are tasks that can be outsourced because they are finite and teachable. The real thing that makes an entrepreneur great is the ability to solve novel problems—problems that not only have you never seen before, but no one has. To solve these, you need to build up from first principles and think through it. However, this is the hardest thing to sell because people prefer immediate solutions, like painkillers over vitamins. If you market it as taking someone from zero dollars in revenue to $3 million, that will sell all day long. But such solutions don't translate into a framework for long-term success.

The real definition of a CEO is a scary one. A CEO hires the smartest people to solve problems, and when those problems are too difficult, they bring them back to the CEO. The CEO's job is to deal with the worst problems that even the smartest people can't solve. Essentially, a CEO is a firefighter for the most complex issues. It's not a fun or easy position, which is why many move to chairman roles eventually.

In 2020, I started Contrarian Thinking with the belief that people had lost their ability to think critically because they couldn't question anything. I believe that curiosity can lead to more success than genius because curiosity allows you to leverage collective genius. With tools like ChatGPT, if you are a genius but unwilling to ask questions, you miss out on a world of knowledge. Our ability to question is integral to our success, but many people don't see the need to improve their thinking. They believe their thinking is fine and that their problems lie elsewhere.

To get people to think differently, I realized I needed a Trojan Horse. What do all humans want? Love, personal wealth, and relevancy. I decided to focus on wealth, as I have extensive experience in finance. By teaching people how to make more money, I could also get them to think about something more important: ownership. Ownership brings personal responsibility for outcomes, which leads to incentive alignment. When you have incentive alignment, you feel the impact of both positive and negative actions on what you own.

=> 01:29:30

Ownership is the key to freedom—take control of your life through financial independence and personal responsibility.

Well, I don't really know that much about health, and I don't really want to talk about sex on the internet. I wouldn't say I'm an expert there either. But what about wealth or greed? Well, yeah, I know a lot about that. I've been in finance for a long time. So, what if I could Trojan Horse my way into thinking by getting people to talk about money? I'll tell them how to make more money, but in the process of telling them how to make more money, I'm actually going to get them to think about something more important, which is ownership.

Ownership involves having personal responsibility for outcomes. When you have personal responsibility for outcomes, you have incentive alignment. When you have incentive alignment, then when somebody breaks something that you own, you feel it. When somebody lifts up something that you own, you feel it. You have the pleasure-pain cycle happening within you. That is why we eventually started talking about money and contrarian thinking because I realized it's a Trojan Horse to getting people to care about decision-making because they actually have skin in the game. Ownership is the key to freedom, and if you do not have control over your life through Financial Freedom, it's very hard to have other levels of ownership.

Ownership is such a part of your message, and I think it's so, so, so important. Why don't people have that push now? That's not the cool thing that it once was. It's interesting. The other day, we had an employee decide that they wanted to leave to go into a meditation community, like a monastery. Not really sure. This was a really good employee, by the way, a great employee. I thought, what is that decision-making? I went back to the quote—I can't remember who it's from—but the purpose of faith or religion is to live it in life. That's why the Dalai Lama doesn't stay in Tibet, right? His purpose is to go spread this faith that he has while living life because life is hard and difficult. It's very easy to stay peaceful if you're in 24/7 meditation states.

Yet, I think this generation presupposes that if they find the perfect circumstance, that will lead to bliss, instead of realizing that actually bliss is found in the difficulty. I don't know about this personal situation with this individual, but I thought about this a lot because I wondered what would make somebody put their life on pause that way and stay in this one situation. I think the reason is that we have not been conditioned in this generation to find joy in difficulty. Instead, we want to find joy in extreme pleasure.

Look at what we've done to this generation. This is wild. Even to parents today, we told them, "Parents, run your kids around 24/7 to all of these activities. If they get upset in any way, shape, or form, run to the principal, talk to the parent on their behalf. Don't let them handle it. If something is wrong with them and they are sad or anxious, they are probably depressed or maybe they have ADHD. We're going to label them and pathologize them as opposed to telling them they're having a momentary issue. We're going to get them into the most expensive colleges or any college we can, but then they will have a massive amount of student debt. On top of that, we're going to tell them that it's okay about every single feeling that you're having and that all of this is trauma. Yes, your cat died 15 years ago, and you are still carrying that inside of your hips, and that's why they're tight because that's where you hold the trauma from Fluffy."

This is what we've told parents and kids, and so of course they're confused. They don't know what real joy is. They've checked all the boxes, done all the things that they thought they were supposed to do, and it's led to them being in debt, not that happy, and not with a partner. So, what's next? As much as I give my generation and the next generation a hard time, I really get it because I was told all those same things too and had to come out on the other side and realize, no, I'm the only one responsible for my happiness. There's actually a lot of joy in the journey, and there is no destination that you can reach. By the way, you can never stay for the rest of your life in perfect meditation. The point of meditation is not that; it is to be in life.

=> 01:33:31

True happiness comes from within, not from external achievements or following societal expectations.

They've done all the things that they thought they were supposed to do, and it's led to them being in debt, not that happy, and not with a partner. So, what's next? As much as I give my generation, our generation, and the next generation a hard time, I really get it because I was told all those same things too. I had to come out on the other side and realize, no, I'm the only one responsible for my happiness. There's actually a lot of joy in the journey, and there is no destination that you can reach. By the way, you can never stay for the rest of your life in perfect meditation. The point of meditation is not that; it is to be in life.

I heard this thing the other day that I really liked. I think it was Mel Robbins, and Mel Robbins was saying that the eye of the hurricane is what she tries to be. If there's a hurricane and there's chaos, tumult, broken windows, danger, and floods on the exterior, in the middle of it, it's silent and serene. Her goal is, no matter what's happening out here, to stay silent inside. I was thinking about that, and I liked it. But you know what's even more interesting? The bigger the hurricane, the bigger the eye, right? The more silence inside of it. So, if you put yourself in bigger, more intense situations, are you able to find a deeper level of silence, quiet, and contemplation? I think the answer is yes, you are.

This goes back to the Ted Turner quote: "We lost 100 million bucks on that." If we all will die, and it may be painful at some time, and the only truth in life is that we will experience pain, we will die, and all of our loved ones will die, and they will probably not remember us much sooner than we would ever like, then we should probably prepare ourselves for that with a bigger hurricane. As we look at the true difficulty of life, which is eventual death and difficulty on the path of it, it doesn't daunt us because we've lived in difficulty too. I come closer and closer to that Buddhist idea that life has suffering, life is suffering, but that's sort of the point of it all, and you can find joy in that. It's way too deep, you know, Tanner would go, "That's deep," but I think it might be true.

The storm destroys most everyone that it touches. That's the problem. How do you think about that? Like creating hurricanes for no reason? No, do you lament to God, wail from your gut at the fact that you can create an eye in the middle of the largest storm, but that most of the people you know and love will get torn to pieces? I don't think I have that individual power. I get really careful about overstating what I think I'm capable of, and I don't think I am capable of destroying the ones around me. No, not you. I'm saying that I am very distressed that most people will not be able to do it. Most people won't be able to be a CEO; they survive their own hurricane they create. Exactly. This is one of those where I don't want it to be true; I've just seen it play out too many times.

You and I both said the same thing, so I know that you see what I'm about to say, which is step number one of being a CEO is to ask yourself, do you really want to be a CEO? Because all I hear when someone says, "I want to be a CEO," is that you want to get punched in the face over and over and over. Really, really, really. The longer I do it, the more punches I take, and you do start going, "Huh, I routinely am asking myself, why am I doing this?" It's really interesting to compare my wife and me. I have married my equal. My wife is unimaginable, and she has helped me become the person that I am. I really don't even know who I would be without her because of how gifted she is and how smart she is. She can't do what I can do, and she will be the first to tell you. I mean, she did tell you literally before we started rolling. She was like, "I don't want to be CEO. I see what he has to deal with, and I don't want it."

It is so exciting for me, and I can be the dancing bear that you poke fun at. I can be the dancing bear of motivation and be very performative around just living in that personality of the person that can create the calm and that you can do anything you set your mind to. Then I've seen it up close, and the reality is that most people don't have the skill or emotional management. That's what being the eye of the storm is about.

=> 01:37:51

Embrace the chaos, stay calm, and keep your dreams in your back pocket.

Without her, because of how gifted and smart she is, she can't do what I can do. She will be the first to tell you; in fact, she did tell you literally before we started rolling. She said, "I don't want to be CEO. I see what he has to deal with, and I don't want it."

It is so exciting for me because I can be the dancing bear of motivation, very performative around living in that personality of the person who can create calm and convey that you can do anything you set your mind to. I've seen it up close, and the reality is that most people don't have the skill of emotional management. That's what being the eye of the storm is—everything can be burning down around you, and you're not panicking. You're concerned and taking decisive action, but you're not panicking.

The person you lost to the monastery-like place is the norm. To steal man their argument, I keep in my back pocket that life choice. I studied Eastern philosophy a lot when I was younger. At one point, I actually called myself a Dost, and I meant it. I always contended with the idea of becoming a monk of some kind. I believed that the wellspring of all suffering is desire, which made sense to me. However, it felt like a choice between engaging with life and disengaging from it. You could say you're engaging with the pursuit of non-attachment, but it just isn't how it felt to me.

I'm perfectly willing to accept that maybe that's just the part of my spiritual journey that I'm on, and one day I'll start laughing at myself, realizing that detachment was the right answer all along. But I decided to fully engage with life. For my sanity, I keep in my back pocket the idea that I could just stop wanting any of this. The second I stop wanting to grow my YouTube channel, make more revenue, be an entrepreneur for the ages, or build the next Disney, I could just let go of all of that. If I actually let go, all of a sudden, those punches don't hurt anymore; they don't matter.

You do have to contend with freedom coming from financial freedom. One way to achieve that is to beg for food and live in either a monastery or a cave, coming out every now and then with your rice bowl. I don't pass judgment on that lifestyle; I just don't currently want it for myself. But it's in my back pocket.

I like the back pocket idea. I think it's really important. I don't have a good definition for it, so I have to work on this, but this idea of ownership does not have to mean being an owner. There needs to be a difference between the two. In my opinion, there are four levels to being rich monetarily. The first level is a spender—you make money, you spend it. The second level is a saver—you make money, you save some of it. The third level is an owner—you take the money and apply it towards your pursuits, such as investing in your work or business. The fourth level is an investor—you take your excess and invest it in other people and their pursuits.

You can't really go from a spender all the way to an investor; you have to climb the rungs. I've thought a lot about what ownership means because I do not think everybody should be an entrepreneur or a CEO in any way, shape, or form. But I do think they should have some skin in the game for what they're doing and a way to continue to earn even if something catastrophic happens to them. This could mean having additional income streams, investments, or helping their spouse learn a new skill, thus providing the family with multiple income streams. It could also mean living on the land and subsidizing part of their income by growing things or having agricultural tax credits.

It's really important that we don't become people who own nothing and like it. We can be people who want fewer material things because our neighbors have them, but simultaneously have more ownership of the things that can protect us from negative consequences, like a health event where you need money or an authoritarian regime that tells you what to do.

=> 01:42:14

Invest in skills and ownership to protect your future and build a resilient community.

Additional income streams can come from various sources such as investments or helping a spouse learn a new skill, which can lead to multiple income streams for the family. This could also mean achieving sovereignty by living on the land and subsidizing part of their income through activities like growing things or obtaining agricultural tax credits. It's crucial to avoid becoming people who own nothing and like it. Instead, we should aim to own less material things because our neighbors have them, while simultaneously having more ownership of things that can protect us from negative consequences, such as a health event requiring money or an authoritarian regime imposing demands.

Money serves as an option that can be used or not used. Ownership is a concept that needs to be narrowed down. Not everyone should be a CEO, as it would be problematic if everyone were one, leaving no one to work with us. The job of a CEO is to have a dream so big that it encompasses many people, selling them that dream and showing them that it is bigger than anything they could create individually. This dream should uplift them in a way that is more enjoyable and interesting, as high-performing teams are a joy to be part of.

One of the worst things that happened was the belief that remote work was better for us, which has proven detrimental, as indicated by mental health statistics. Our teams are encouraged to come back to the office, not necessarily every day, but to be in Austin for Contrarian Thinking. We have invested in a studio and headquarters there, hiring extensively. Bringing people back to the office has shown positive results, countering the negative effects of isolation.

Ownership used to mean that company owners were not just unaligned shareholders who provided money for stock without affecting the outcome. Today, shareholders of companies like Google or Amazon are not aligned with the employees; they only seek maximum returns, leading to perverse short-term incentives. As employees, the goal should be to make enough money and then invest it in things that matter. Skill stacking to become valuable can lead to opportunities for equity or investment in other companies.

At Contrarian Thinking, employees don't typically have equity, but some have gained equity in other companies, becoming partners and owners while still being employees. This should be a common practice for top performers, just as people should aspire to grow beyond minimum wage.

Regarding BlackRock and other big companies buying everything, Main Street Holding Company owns 26 companies. Initially, the goal was to create a private equity fund as big as KKR or Carlyle, having already raised a billion-dollar fund at First Trust. However, observing the operations of private equity-owned companies revealed issues like stripping employees, creating impersonal environments with fluorescent lights and cubicles, and fostering perverse incentives.

=> 01:46:05

I realized I don't want to build a billion-dollar empire by stripping companies of their soul; I want to empower Americans to own their local businesses and keep the community spirit alive.

We have 26 companies in the portfolio right now. Not so long ago, my goal was to create the next KKR or Carlyle. I saw how these guys operate and wanted to create a private equity fund just as big. I had already raised a billion-dollar fund at First Trust and believed I could do it again, but in a better asset class, which would be private companies. So, I went on my merry way buying these companies. However, I started noticing what was happening with a lot of these private equity-owned companies. They were stripping the employees, turning the buildings into postmodernist structures with fluorescent lights and cubicles. When you go to the corner store, nobody knows your name. These companies have perverse incentives because they want to strip and flip them to somebody else, and then the next person does the same. Many of these companies get sold by three or four private equity firms before they go public, losing their soul in the process.

I realized that while I want to build billion-dollar companies, I don’t want to own all of America’s small businesses. I want Americans to own those businesses. If I can create value by building something that hasn't existed before, that's cool, but I don’t need to gobble up all the things that other people could own within their communities. I am very much pushing back against the big guys owning everything and making us work for them. For those economic nerds out there, if you don’t understand the unfair advantage that BlackRock and Blackstone have, it will scare the hell out of you. They have immense data because they’ve been doing this for a long time. Most of their former executives have worked in the FED, been consultants for the FED, held political positions, or been the chairman of the FED. They have also been at various companies like the CEO of BlackRock and Blackstone, who have both owned each other's companies before. They get rates to buy companies, houses, and assets at a fraction of the rates we get. Why? Because they have all our money. You and I have our investments at BlackRock in their ETFs, which means they get to use those assets on the balance sheet to have lower rates to buy things, increasing the prices of single-family homes in the US with our dollars. I think that is criminal. While I don’t love government regulation, I believe they should at least get their foot off the neck of the little guy.

People need to understand how the world really works and how I went from being an underpaid journalist to buying a portfolio of small, what I call boring, businesses that now kick off just under $100 million in annual revenue. Business, especially small business, gets way overcomplicated. We hear stories of Silicon Valley billionaires exiting giant tech companies, but in reality, your richest neighbor is probably someone who owns a plumbing company or a local landscaping company. The community around you and the services you use every day can make you a lot of cash. Money is the architect for change in our world. You want to get somebody elected? Money. You want to change your local community? Money. You want different zonings to change the businesses in your local area? Money. I don’t acquire money for Lamborghinis and fancy things; I do it because it is a way to freedom and a tool for power. When I first had money, I made $30,000 after college and thought I was super rich, but then I learned about taxes. I worked at a big company called Vanguard, the world’s largest financial manager. At the time, Vanguard touched one in every four dollars in the US economy through mutual funds and pensions they invested in.

=> 01:50:16

Money isn't just for luxury; it's a tool for freedom and lifting up those around you.

I don't acquire money because I want Lamborghinis and fancy things. I do it because I think it is a way to freedom, a tool for power. When I first had money, I made like $30,000 when I left college. I made no money out of college and thought I was super rich, thinking I might never have to work again. Then I heard about taxes and figured that out. I quickly realized that working at a big company called Vanguard, the world's largest financial manager at the time, was fascinating. People inside Vanguard touched one in every $4 in the US economy through mutual funds and pensions. I realized these humans spoke a language I didn't understand, like ROI, IIDA, and basis points. Finance has this language for a reason, to make normal people entrust their money to professionals because they don't understand how to manage their own future.

In 2008, during the financial crisis, I had people calling me at Vanguard, crying and asking how Vanguard could have stolen their money, not realizing that the stock market has fluctuations. At that point, I realized I would never let this happen to me and mine. This was hard because my family thought chasing money was evil and believed we were happy without a lot of money. Then I heard about the napkin theory. Imagine yourself in the middle, with your mom, dad, brother, and sister on each of the four corners. When you pursue financial freedom and lift up your napkin, you lift up everyone around you. Money trickles down, and when you have more around your family, you can hire family members, build new businesses, and create more wealth by spending it. This theory explained that one of the best pursuits is financial freedom to uplift everyone else, which changed a lot for me.

I own a bunch of small businesses, largely run by blue-collar workers. I remember calling one of the operators in one of my companies, who oversees about 100 employees and contractors. I wanted to do self-improvement events for our line workers, largely Hispanic, and pay them to attend. He told me they wouldn't go because they weren't interested in personal development. I found this fascinating and called a few other operators of my businesses. They said the same thing. I realized that the language we use, even the people on YouTube listening to this right now, already understand and value personal development. However, most blue-collar workers I've worked with view personal development like therapy. When I told my dad I was going to therapy with my husband proactively before marriage, he thought something was wrong. My mom had a similar reaction. They are smart, great humans, but the words meant something different to them.

I realized there are Two Worlds in the US right now, maybe even three. One world consists of the elites, who understand and value personal development, while the other world consists of blue-collar workers who may view it differently.

=> 01:53:55

Personal development isn't just for the elite; it's a powerful tool for everyone to improve their lives.

In my experience, people often think about personal development similarly to therapy. For instance, when I told my dad that I was going to therapy with my husband proactively before we got married, he asked, "What's wrong? Are you guys okay?" I explained that it was because we wanted to work on this thing called marriage, which seemed important, especially since I had failed at it once before. My dad found it bizarre, and my mom had a similar reaction. Although they are smart and great humans, the words meant something different to them.

What I realized with our group is that there are essentially two worlds in the US right now, maybe even three. One world consists of the elites, which might include white-collar workers in corporate jobs who use terms like quiet quitting. These words don't exist in blue-collar land. Early on, I had to re-navigate and negotiate my language because terms like "therapy" and "personal development" were often seen as negative. This change in language was crucial for altering my relationship with money. Today, personal development is totally normal for me.

However, I get really annoyed when people, especially on Twitter, suggest routines like getting up at 5:00 a.m., taking an ice bath, then a sauna, and so on. These suggestions come from a place of privilege and don't consider that many people have never experienced such routines. Instead of belittling those who are not obsessed with personal development, we should help them understand its value. The idea that self-education is bad is something I strongly disagree with.

I can't remember where I heard this, but someone said, "Where there's mystery, there's money." This made me think about whether people intentionally create a false version of the world to keep others down. I believe it's more about people not realizing they live in bubbles. People on the internet often talk to others just like them, and many mouthpieces have never had diverse experiences like hiring ex-convicts or driving them around Beverly Hills.

A lot of this generation prefers the idea of being solo entrepreneurs, boasting about building a $10 million business in 90 days with no employees. I think that's a tragedy. One of the most incredible things you can do is hire people. They may drive you crazy, but they also help you create a legacy beyond just yourself. Watching an employee change completely under your leadership or within your culture is an incredible feeling.

For me, climbing my way up felt like pulling the curtain back to see how the world actually works. This sense has not stopped; the more I learn and succeed, the more I realize how the world functions. Getting into finance was a big turning point for me. Understanding what inflation really is made me feel like there might be a conspiracy.

As a big believer in understanding the world, I look at it and feel like it's losing its mind. I never thought I would deal with culture war stuff, but here we are.

=> 01:57:44

The world is tearing itself apart because of bad ideas—let's start owning our future by embracing good ones.

It really did feel like, as I climbed my way up, I was pulling the curtain back and seeing how the world actually works. That sense has not stopped for me; the farther I go, the more I learn, the more I succeed, the more I'm like, "Oh wow, the world works in a certain way." Getting into finance was actually the big thing for me. That was the first time where I felt like maybe there really is a conspiracy. When you start to understand what inflation really is, it's like, "Bro, what is happening?"

I step back and look at the world, and I feel like it's losing its mind. I'm like, "What the [__] is happening?" Never did I think that I would deal with culture war stuff or anything even remotely political. Then I realized that the world is tearing itself apart because of bad ideas, and that really is my jam. So, how do we start getting people to pay attention to good ideas? One thing you said that really resonated with me is getting more people to have skin in the game because if you own part of the house, you don't want to tear it down. What do you mean by that, and what are you actually trying to help people discover in that moment?

There's a famous law called tragedy of the commons, and it's an economic theory that is crucial if you want to understand why people burn instead of build. I heard about it from a famous economist by the name of Thomas Sowell. Oh my God, if I was going to be a fanboy for anybody, it would be Thomas. Me too. His book, "Economic Facts and Fallacies," is crucial reading for anybody that wants to understand numbers, not regurgitate them, and to do it in a way that is a competition of ideas as opposed to just shouting the loudest.

For instance, when I lived in DC, I saw it firsthand. We were in a new development in Columbia Heights. Some of the streets were the hood, and some were brand new developments. Across from us was a big project that went up—subsidized housing, really well done, pretty. Sadly, within about a year of living there, it went from a nice establishment to most of the houses being boarded up. One year, woof. I remember sitting there watching it, and at the same time, I was rereading "Economic Facts and Fallacies." Thomas Sowell talked about how instead of subsidizing housing, making it cheaper for people but having no skin in the game, nobody is responsible for anything in that place, and some live for free. What they've done is taken away their personal sovereignty.

Have you ever been on a street and seen those scooters around that everybody can rent for a few dollars, like Bird scooters? They're beat to hell, thrown on the sidewalk. In Paris, they throw them in the Seine all the time. That is the tragedy of the commons in action. If that was your scooter, you would take care of it, but because you don't own it and have no incentive to take care of it, you beat it up.

One of the biggest problems in our society today is that we did this huge research analysis, and it shook me. We looked at sub-sectors in the US economy, not just construction but hardware stores and roofing companies. What we found is that across 30 or 40 sub-sectors, 25 to 30% are owned by the top 10 companies in each sector, and that number is growing rapidly. We don't own our local businesses anymore; we don't own our homes as much anymore. One in four single-family homes in 2022 was bought by an institutional buyer. We are doing the narrative that's supposed to not be true, which is that "you will own nothing and be happy about it," and we're letting it happen right in front of our eyes.

I think that's a horrible thing because you've all been to a Starbucks where it's kind of dirty, beat up, the greeter doesn't know your name, the barista spells it wrong, and the coffee is burnt. It's lost what it was. Then you go to a local coffee shop, and it's the same person every day. I was just at one in San Diego the other day. Gosh, I wish I remembered his name so I could shout it out, but it was a great little coffee shop in Bird Rock. The owner was right there, making the coffee for me. We got to know each other, and he was having a community party.

=> 02:01:37

Life is a beautiful game, master the rules and play to win.

You know, you will own and be happy about it, and we're doing it. We're letting it happen right in front of our eyes, and I think that's a horrible thing. You've certainly seen it here in LA, but you go to a Starbucks, right? Outside, it's kind of dirty and beat up. The greeter doesn't know your name, the barista spells it wrong, they get your coffee, the brims are kind of burnt, and it's lost what it was. The mermaid is no more. Then you go to a local coffee shop, and what do you feel? It's the same person every day. I was just at one in San Diego the other day—gosh, I wish I remembered his name so I could shout it out—but a great little coffee shop in Bird Rock. The owner is right there, making the coffee for me. We get to know each other; he's having a community party on Sunday. That is never going to happen at a Starbucks, and that's why owning those small businesses is so important. That skin in the game makes all the difference.

I don't think everybody should own a business; it's hard. You know that better than anybody. You've been playing this game in a big way, but I do think having some incentive where if I do X more, I can make Y more, and I can leave my stamp on the world is really important. So that's my mission. I love that. I think it's really important.

As you were talking, so, you're going to own nothing and be happy. When I got into this, I really thought anybody who believed in any conspiracy was out of their mind. I was like, "Oh jeez, do I even have time to have this conversation?" Then I really started thinking about the way that people think. So here's my thesis: Dear smart people, stop trusting yourself because you think you're real clever, and I'm just going to tell you right now, you're wrong more than you're right. I'm glad you're there. I'm glad the world has smart people, and I'm glad people really push the envelope, do things, take chances, and believe in themselves. That's not what I'm talking about. What I'm talking about is the scientific method. You have to approach everything with humility.

When I hear things like "You're going to own nothing and be happy," it's like, bro, stop trying to do top-down. Top-down always ends in tyranny—not once, not most of the time, it always ends in tyranny. Seeing people snatching buildings up or whatever, I think it's unwise to think of it as a grand conspiracy. I think it is better to think of it as well-intentioned people. They aren't evil; they certainly don't view themselves as evil, but they have a belief system that we have to dunk on. We have to understand, we being anybody listening to this, that you can get so good they can't stop you from controlling your own life. You can get so good that you can buy a bevy of boring businesses that generate a hundred million. That's so crazy, and getting people to understand that is crucial.

I love that you used to be a journalist, that you did not go to Harvard. At one point, you said, "I did more keg stands than MCAT prep." I forget what the other thing was, but it was so on point. Yet, you learned the rules of a game, and now you play that game well. I've been thinking a lot about how my show has evolved over the years, always with the same mission. I want this moment; I want people to understand that you can get so good at the game that nobody can stop you. That's it. It's the only reason I do all of this. I work this hard for that one thing.

As I get into this part of my thing where I'm trying to have way deeper conversations, for the person that's been following me for seven years, it's like, cool. In the beginning, we got your mindset right, then we helped you get your personal finances and your relationships right, and now we're like full reality distortion field. What I want people to understand is that the game of life has rules. You can master them, and you can play to win. The tagline I'm noodling on is "Life is a beautiful game" because I don't want people to hear wolves howling in the background. I don't want them to think of Klaus Schwab as an evil guy. He really thinks he's good; he really thinks he's trying to help you. If you approach him in that way, you'll be better off.

I want people to understand that life is a beautiful game, but you need to master it. Looking under the curtain, seeing how all of this works, that really is what I'm all about at every level. Whether I'm doing a comic book, working on a video game, or doing one of these interviews, it's like lifting up the curtain to see that it has rules. Once you know how to play, then you can really get good. Oh yeah, well, I love that because I think you're right.

=> 02:05:34

Life is a game with rules—master it, face challenges, and find joy in the struggle.

I want people to hear wolves howling in the background. I don't want them to think of CLA Schwab as an evil guy; he really thinks he's good, like he really thinks he's trying to help you. If you approach him in that way, you'll be better off. Anyway, I want people to understand that life is a beautiful game, but you need to master it. Looking under the curtain and seeing how all of this works is really what I'm all about at every level. Whether I'm doing a comic book, working on a video game, or doing one of these interviews, it's like lifting up the curtain to see that it has rules. Once you know how to play, then you can really get good.

Oh yeah, well, I love that because I think you're right. Think about it: first of all, the beautiful game is interesting because that's what they call football or soccer around the world, which is the most viewed sport globally, which I love. If you think about life as a game, then you think about problems as levels and see them as natural. You start to look forward to the solution of said problem, as opposed to expecting that life is a vacation with a Mai Tai on a beach chair somewhere, which I think is what a lot of us expect. We think it should be easy, and it's not fair that this happened. Why do we think that we want life without some villains in it and without some worthwhile adversaries? There's no David without Goliath, and so you need those enemies and adversaries because they help you level up. How boring of a game would it be if we were just handed the prize as soon as we walked on stage? What are we going to do with the rest of our time?

I've really tried to program my mind over the years and to learn from people who look at problems and think, "Oh, this is juicy. What are we going to do about that?" They get curious, thinking about whether to use the lightsaber or the laser gun. If you can do that with business too, then I think this whole world of opportunity opens in front of you where you become the wizard behind the curtain. You realize that every single game you want to play has rules, ways to break those rules, trends, ripples, and rhythms. As soon as you realize that, you can have fun with it.

We were talking beforehand about YouTube, and I have so much fun with social media online because it is a giant game. It's hyper-algorithmic, with tons of rhythms to learn and watch from other people. There's a feedback loop that tells you if you are succeeding or not almost immediately, and that is just like business. If you like playing around with social media and learning which posts go viral because of the human attention span, then you might actually like business too.

That's why sometimes people say, "I want to be an influencer online" or "I want to be a singer or an artist." I ask, is that actually what you want? Do you want that label, or do you want to play a game in which you have some skill set that you could uniquely apply to win a little bit more than you lose? They do want the label, but I don't think they're happy once they get it because they didn't earn it.

This is where I really want to get into the way the world actually works. This is all psychology—yours and others. The reality is people do want fame for nothing; they do want money for nothing. What they don't understand, going back to money, is that money is just the great facilitator. If you don't know what you want to do, it's going to implode you. No one will believe you until they do it themselves, but that really is true.

The question is, how do we get people to understand that happiness is struggle? Once you understand this, the way I come at it is from an evolutionary lens. Over millions of years of evolution, nature realized that it had to put algorithms in your mind. One of those algorithms is that you won't enjoy anything if you don't work hard for it, period. Nature had to make sure you were willing to face a saber-tooth tiger, go hunt, go gather, like every day in an unrelenting parade of difficulty and misery. You had to keep going, and so there had to be a tremendous reward for working hard.

This is why no one ever said, "I worked my ass off to get this thing, and I'm so sad I did it." It's always, "I worked my ass off to get a thing I care about that is important." Cody Sanchez says, "Be careful the mountain you choose to climb," which I think is very wise. If you worked your ass off to get something you care about, then you feel good, not just about the thing.

=> 02:09:24

True fulfillment comes from working hard for what you care about, not from likes and followers.

Years of evolution have led nature to realize that it had to put algorithms in your mind. One of those algorithms is that you won't enjoy anything if you don't work hard for it, period. Nature had to ensure you were willing to face a saber-tooth tiger, go hunt, and gather every day in an unrelenting parade of difficulty and misery. You had to keep going, and so there had to be a tremendous reward for hard work. This is why no one ever says, "I worked my ass off to get this thing, and I'm so sad I did it." Instead, it's always, "I worked my ass off to get a thing I care about that is important." Cody Sanchez wisely advises, "be careful the mountain you choose to climb." If you worked hard to get something you care about, then you feel good not just about the thing but also about yourself.

However, there's a reason that rich kids implode. When you get that thing without effort, it won't hold the emotional weight you wanted it to. When I got into business, I didn't do it for social media recognition; the Graham didn't exist. I spent almost 20 years building businesses without thinking about public perception. I did it just so I could launch my studio. I ground myself into the dirt to achieve it, and I was already worth hundreds of millions of dollars before I picked up my first social post. If I could get people to fall in love with "go get good," that will feel way better than all the likes and followers. That transient stuff doesn't compare to being good at something, which is forever.

When you get rich and famous, you start to get around other rich and famous people. They can see who's real and who's not. You start to crave the respect of people you respect. I've seen it implode quickly. For example, I have a young friend who made tens of millions of dollars online but did it in ways people don't want to associate with. It's an empty achievement. You have to pretend to a legion of followers that you're the real deal, but you can feel the emptiness. I've talked to him about it, saying, "Man, you've got the thing; you're just chasing the wrong rabbit." You need to find your actual real rabbit because you'll never get respect just from likes and clicks. You'll get it when you're around people who see you as a builder with interesting ideas, not just a hustler.

Most people don't know to strive for creating value in the world. They think we compare bank accounts, but we don't. We talk about ideas and worthwhile projects. At a certain point, that's where you want to go after some success. Lisa and I discussed how to network with cool people. It's about doing cool, inspiring things that bridge your curiosity. Eventually, you attract others who are also interested in trying. That's the real joy of what we get to do. I've met a lot of famous people, but often, I could do without them. Then you meet builders, like one of my CEOs who scrubs his name off the internet. He’s likely worth billions, yet he remains one of the most interesting humans to talk to because his conversations are unique and not regurgitated.

It's important that people like you are on the internet because otherwise, the vacuum will be filled with more Kardashians instead of builders.

=> 02:13:30

Building in public and learning from diverse successes is key to thriving in today's world.

I initially thought I could do without certain things, but then I met some builders who completely changed my perspective. One of my CEOs, for example, scrubs his name off the internet, making it nearly impossible to find him. Despite never showing me his bank account, it's clear he has billions. He is one of the most interesting people to talk to because our conversations are unique and not just regurgitated information. It's important to have people on the internet like you because without them, the void would be filled with more celebrities like the Kardashians. While they are builders in their own right, it might not be the world I want to see.

I admit, I'm a bit obsessed with Kim Kardashian. When she made headlines by saying people need to work harder, I agreed wholeheartedly. People need to work harder, and I couldn't believe it was controversial. I stand in solidarity with Kim on this. What she has built is impressive, regardless of how it started. The fact that her journey began with a sex tape is something she doesn't seem to care about, and neither do I. I'm not a Puritan; I'm more interested in the psychology behind her brand play. I don't have any issues with social media or leveraging it for business.

A friend of mine, Matt Higgins, invited Kim to be a case study at Harvard Business School, which made a lot of sense to me. Humans building in public is fascinating, especially those who have built multiple billion-dollar businesses. There's always something to learn, and dismissing it because it started from a sex tape is shortsighted. Many sex tapes exist, but not everyone becomes a billionaire. I would gladly take a master class from her.

What I would like to see more of are people like you, Andy Forella, and others who are building something with a strong American focus and mission-driven values. I'm more of a mission and values person in today's world. That's almost certainly what bothers me about some other public figures—they don't radiate the same mission and values.

We live in a unique time where being an entrepreneur is more accessible. For me, the only thing that allows me to work this hard is having a small group of people I know and love to fight for. At Quest, I fought for my mom and sister, who were morbidly obese, by creating food they could choose based on taste that was also good for them. I made decisions that cost me hundreds of millions of dollars to help them. With Impact Theory, I focus on a small group of people, and unfortunately, I've already attended one of their funerals. Having a mission that leaks out into everything you do is crucial.

=> 02:17:12

Success is tied to the sacrifices you're willing to make.

I was committed to providing food that people could choose based on taste and that happened to be good for them. I was willing to fight for that, making choices that cost me hundreds of millions of dollars. It was a matter of deciding whether a decision would help them or just make me more money. I was really proud of that. With Impact Theory, it is again a very small group of people. Unfortunately, I've already been to one of their funerals, which was heartbreaking. However, the changes he made in his life before the car accident were unbelievable, serving as an incredible reminder of how impactful this work can be.

When you have a mission, it hopefully leaks out through the choices you make and the products you build. We live in an era where having a mission is also great marketing. It's hard to beat obsession. You can have all the tactics, tools, money, and advantages, but if someone is obsessed with what they are building, they are hard to beat. They will work longer and sacrifice more. Your success level is often tied to the sacrifices you are willing to make. This doesn't mean you have to work 100 hours a week, but significant sacrifices are necessary for massive success. Anyone who says otherwise has probably never played the game. Everyone has to fight against entropy. While some people do get lucky, it's a minor factor.

Sitting down with a fellow builder, it's clear that you actually know how to do this. We've talked about mindset, understanding that money isn't what you thought—it’s more powerful but different. You really can do this. It's about pulling back the curtain, understanding psychology, knowing how the world works, and understanding how to insert yourself into it. For anyone at home wanting to do this, let's get into the real tactics so that obsession becomes a set of skills. It's really that simple.

How do people know which mountain to climb? It might be worth telling that wonderful story. Once they know which mountain to climb, let's get into how one climbs a business mountain. We all missed the class in high school where they taught us to know thyself, Oracle at Delphi style. If I could go back and do something different, it would have been to think more about who I am and what I want. This would have gotten me out of corporate jobs I didn't like for 12 years, even though I was stacking cash.

If anyone listening hasn't written down consistently what they like doing every single day, what they are uniquely skilled at, what people come to them for advice on, and what they focus on even without being paid, they should start. Identify the things that interest you so much that you become obsessed with them, entering a flow state where the whole world narrows in. Maybe even your family gets annoyed because you won't shut up about this one thing.

Get granular about your interests. For example, if you like video games, think about whether you are obsessed with the characters, the technology, or how the game grew. I wish I had done this earlier to find games I actually wanted to play. I was too scared that I didn't have some big startup idea. I just wanted to work hard, make money, and do what I liked. Can we pause on that for a second?

=> 02:20:52

Embrace who you truly are and focus on what you love, even if it's not the "cool" thing—success follows authenticity.

The family's annoyed because you won't shut up about this one thing that you're doing all the time, right? Where can you find those things? As you narrow in, they don't have to become something broad. I think a lot of people then go to video games, but it's more granular than that. Is it that you get obsessed with the characters, or you really like thinking about the technology, or you understand how this video game grew so much? Try to get really granular. I wish I had done that earlier because then I could have found games that I actually wanted to play. I was too scared that I didn't have some big startup idea like yours. I didn't have any ideas; I just wanted to work hard, make money, and do what I like to do.

Can we pause on that for a second? One thing I heard you say in another interview was, "Oh my God, know thyself." You said, "I'm never going to have the next idea about a music app or whatever; that's just not me." I was like, whoa, because people want to be cool; they want to be the person with the big ideas. Everybody thinks they want to be the CEO, but not everybody's wired for that. Even if they are, they may not be a product-led CEO; maybe they're a people-led CEO or a process CEO. Once you own that it's not you, you can start narrowing your focus to what your strategy is going to be.

That's the cool thing about you—you have taken a super unique path to generating just under a hundred million a year, which is bananas. The fact that you were able to do that in a unique path is born out of finally going, "Oh, I'm just going to be honest about who I really am and what I actually respond to." The question I tell people to ask themselves along those lines is, when you're trying to figure out what it is that you want to do, first of all, who is it you want to serve? You'll never fight hard enough unless you're serving somebody. But what is the thing that you're prepared to become the best in the world at? Because if you're just prepared to get good, you'll get crushed. And look, you're probably never going to actually become the best, but when you think about that, you know it's going to be ungodly difficult, and at least you're approaching the problem honestly.

Actually, my husband has us do this incredible thing that I love, which is instead of saying, "What do I want? What are my goals?" it's "What do I want and what am I willing to sacrifice to get it?" He has me do this with him every year because I'm the workaholic; he's actually balanced. Really, yeah, I know. To say that about a Navy SEAL feels off, but now you know how messed up I am. He is not singularly driven by money and the creation of an empire, and I am. I'm not driven by money in my pocket because I basically deploy all of it. For anybody that's looked into your background, that is very clear. But I just find it fascinating; I want to build this huge thing. I want the billion-dollar business. I also just think it's fun. If I have to talk about the weather or PTA meetings, I'm going to just...

Are you like the Oracle of Omaha, where it's literally just a scoreboard thing? No, I think I will get to a certain point where there'll be a new game. Like he has, we've talked about this before, he has singular focus for decades. I told this story on Twitter once, but I sat next to this guy on a plane. I actually think if you have enough cash to do it, first class, even today where everybody's posting about their private jets or whatever, first class today is one of the best investments you can make if you sit and talk with some of the other people in first class. Except not me, because I hate talking to people on planes.

If you say facts, you can say hi, that's lovely, but I don't want to talk the whole flight. But what's fascinating is if you get to the generation above ours, let's call it 50, 60, 70, 80, I was flying back from somewhere in France, must have been Cannes or Nice, and I was flying to the UK. I sat next to this guy, Geoffrey Kent, who created Abercrombie & Kent. You remember that company? It's a luxury travel company, the first company that created those safari tent experiences. He grew up with nothing in South Africa, built up these tent companies by himself, then created one of the largest luxury travel companies in the world. He's friends with the King of England now, like fancy billionaire. Anyway, he was flying next to me, which I thought was kind of interesting. I was like, huh, thought he'd be on a jet. He's like, "I like to fly commercial.

=> 02:24:37

Success is about time plus consistency—stick with it and keep improving every day.

I want to talk about an interesting experience I had on a flight. I was flying back from somewhere in France, possibly Cannes or Nice, to the UK. I sat next to Geoffrey Kent, the creator of Abercrombie & Kent, a luxury travel company known for its safari tent experiences. Geoffrey grew up with nothing in South Africa and built up these tent companies by himself, eventually creating one of the largest luxury travel companies in the world. Now, he's friends with the King of England and is a billionaire. I found it fascinating that he was flying commercial, and when I asked him why, he simply said he liked it.

We got to talking, and I asked him about the secret to his success. He ran Abercrombie & Kent for 60 years, sold it twice, once for a billion dollars, and then bought it back. His response was simple yet profound: "time plus consistency beats everything else." This idea struck me as incredibly true, even though it's not what most people want to hear. Many people today would prefer to have their crypto millions immediately rather than working for decades to become a billionaire like Warren Buffett. But Geoffrey's words made me realize that the only thing separating a billionaire from anyone else might just be the time spent working hard on a particular thing and consistently improving it every single day.

This conversation led me to reflect on my own challenges with focus. I struggle with narrowing my focus, even though I know it would yield better results. I'm envious of people like my wife, who loves what she does and is dedicated to becoming the best at it. I have two main interests—media and storytelling game development—and I can't seem to choose between them. I know that focusing on just one would make my life more productive, but my "mental illness" prevents me from doing so. At least I know this about myself, and we do things in the company to mitigate this issue.

We then discussed the idea of having multiple focuses. Warren Buffett, for example, is known for his investing prowess. He recognizes a good deal when he sees it and operates based on that skill. I mentioned a quote, possibly from Charlie Munger or his mentor, which says, "the difference between good leaders and bad leaders is when I hire a dog, I don't do the barking for it." This quote has influenced my approach to business, as I like having my hands in multiple pots, which isn't great for focus. However, I surround myself with singularly focused individuals who excel at their tasks.

This led us to consider whether there's just one way to achieve success. Maybe there is a main focus and a side interest. I think there are certain physics to success, and while most people, like Jeff Bezos, start with a singular focus—Amazon in his case—before branching out, there are exceptions like Elon Musk. My issue isn't wanting to do too many jobs; it's more about having diverse interests and finding a balance between them.

=> 02:28:56

Know yourself, focus on your strengths, and document your journey to avoid repeating mistakes.

Individuals tend to excel when they focus on one thing at a time, and those who do so often become my number twos. You've built massive wealth, so you're obviously very good at focus too. However, sometimes I wonder if there is just one way to achieve success. Perhaps there is a main focus and a side piece. I believe there are physics to this. For example, Jeff Bezos primarily focused on Amazon for the vast majority of his career before diversifying. He had a team of the world's most talented people working for him. My issue isn't spreading myself too thin because I don't want to do other people's jobs. I am not a micromanager; if I am micromanaging you, it's because you're not delivering results. I prefer to focus on the part I enjoy and am uniquely good at. As a CEO, you have a bigger responsibility to paint a vision and keep people excited.

Even Elon Musk might be more effective if he gave 100% of his time and focus to each of his companies. However, he is an exception due to his extraordinary thinking speed. He often serves as the lead product and engineer guy rather than the CEO. The speed at which you think and the number of tasks you can handle are crucial. I am not a fast thinker; I am a fast talker who thinks slowly and deeply about many subjects. If I could think faster, I could have more output across more things, but I can't, and that holds us back.

On the tactical side, you need to know yourself and your skill set to avoid misalignment. When I realized I wouldn't come up with the next big business idea, I decided to buy a business. I began to build criteria, such as my get-rich tripod and deal valuations, to systematize the process. My bad memory forced me to create frameworks and specific vernacular to remember important details. This led to the development of the get-rich tripod, our dealbox, and our rules and thesis for investing.

One of the superpowers you can have is documenting frameworks as you go on your journey. I had to do this to communicate with my team and myself. For example, we buy boring businesses that are recession-resistant, raise prices, and add technology. If a business doesn't fit this model, we move on. This documentation helps me avoid bad deals and communicate effectively.

I make mistakes all the time, even after 15-16 years of doing deals. When a deal goes bad, we conduct a post-op analysis to understand what went wrong. We run deals against our entire investing framework, including due diligence questions (dddq). For instance, I realized I have a flaw with picking partners, especially if they are friends. Now, I have a new rule: No new friends in deals until we've been together for a long time.

In business, it's essential to continuously analyze and document your actions to make better decisions. This approach is similar to playing a sport or a video game, where you learn from your mistakes and adjust your strategy. If you enjoyed this conversation, check out this episode to learn more about different paths to success. There are people who are really rich with varying lifestyles and habits, proving that there isn't one universal truth to achieving wealth.