The Magnus Carlsen Interview

Chess is going live with spectators for the first time ever in Paris—Magnus Carlsen, Hans Niemann, Hikaru Nakamura, and Alireza Firouzja are ready to battle it out!

What's up everybody! I'm currently in Paris, France for the Speed Chess Championship Finale of 2024. This is the first-ever Speed Championship Finals organized by chess.com with a live audience. The event features Magnus Carlsen versus Hans Niemann in the first semi-final, and the winner of that match will take on the winner of Hikaru Nakamura versus Alireza Firouzja. For the first time ever, there will also be a bronze medal match. The event will take place on September 6th, 7th, and 8th. I will put a link in the description to get more information about the event.

This intro is probably playing in front of an interview. I interviewed all of the players the day before the event. Right now, it's actually media day, and after I finish recording this intro, I'm going to run to the venue because I've got two more interviews with Hans and then with Magnus. Whichever interview this is, the Hikaru one is already up. Please do enjoy, please follow the event. I will be a commentator and will be on the desk as well. Super exciting stuff, super high-stakes matches. That's all I have for you right now. Enjoy the interview and get out of here.

I'm joined by Magnus Carlsen on the evening before the first match of the 2024 Speed Chess Championship in Paris, France. Magnus, how was the trip here? How are you feeling?

"I'm feeling good. The trip was short."

"Yeah, not for me. How long's the flight from where you were?"

"It's like two hours. Basically, you fly two hours in the States, you go somewhere much less nice than Paris. This is the third, I believe, final in a row for you. Maybe because three years ago or whatever, four years ago, you were not playing."

"Yeah, three years ago I was not playing. Four years ago, I lost to Maxime in the semi-final."

"I didn't bring that up, though, you did. But I'm not asking about Maxime. This is the first final you're going to have with a live audience and kind of this beta test of how we can have live spectators in chess. I'm sure you've been asked already about it, but I'm curious to hear your thoughts personally. Is this a fun test of how it can go for you?"

"I really think this is a format that chess needs more of. You can sort of do it both ways, both playing on a physical board and also playing on a computer. But I do think having spectators, the players, more of a boxing setting with their headphones on even if they're playing on a board blocking the noise out, I do think that potentially a great format for chess. It's something that we haven't tested much, right? We know from casual games that spectators don't really shut up when people are playing, so let's give them a chance to get the hype going in a serious tournament as well."

"Here's my question with this because this is what I always wonder. You will have spectators there. Do they have access to their phones? Can they see what's happening? Do they have a big screen? Will they know the evaluation? I mean, they can't possibly know the evaluation, right? Because then they know something they can give away to you. Has that all been worked out?"

"I generally assume that nobody in the audience has more info than we do. I think there are also possibilities to do what we did in the World Championship at some point where you have this glass which you can see in, but you cannot see out."

"Oh, I see. So you guys inside cannot see?"

"Yeah, what is it? It's just a reflection, I guess."

"Wow, okay. That's not the case here?"

"No, I really don't think so."

=> 00:05:02

Chess tournaments need better noise control to keep players focused and unaware of audience reactions.

In the realm of Esports, they can fill Madison Square Garden, and I would love if in the future we could fill an arena of 10,000 people for chess. I did chess boxing in Los Angeles; I didn't fight but I was commentating, and it was electric. However, all the people after said they could hear the crowd reacting to a mistake because they would hear my commentary. After getting in a boxing match, your brain is not thinking like, "Oh, the audience knows something I don't." That was the only issue; they had this noise canceling, but because it's 10,000 people looking at someone blundering a queen, they all started yelling. If you're a beginner, you don't know why.

I’ve had a similar experience myself. I played against Anand in Mainz back in 2008. I played the dragon as black, and it was risky for me but not lost. I made a mistake and realized it immediately. There was a massive evaluation bar that the audience could see, and when the evaluation bar shifted, there was a reaction from the public. Even if Anand hadn’t seen it, he would have known something was wrong. This innovation in Mainz didn’t work for obvious reasons.

I heard a small rumor that after winning the Speed Chess Championship against Hikaru, you had a fun story. How did you celebrate? Oh, yes, I went to a friend's place to play poker for just two hours or something right after. I won at poker as well; I was a bit lucky. It was relatively brief because people had to go home since it was a Sunday, and they had work in the morning. I had forgotten about that; I was thinking if I went out and got drunk or did something stupid, but I didn’t.

=> 00:09:57

When it comes to Blitz chess, it's mine to lose.

The next question is interesting. It’s only been you and Hikaru at the top of the Speed Chess Championship. Do you think you will be replaced in the near future, and do you think the other players in the semi-finals are the best candidates to win over you guys? I do think that Alireza is a very clear number three and probably will be number two quite soon. In classical chess, there are plenty of people, but in anything slower than classical or at least anything slower than rapid, Hikaru is frequently referred to as the king of online chess. His experience is vast; he's probably played hundreds of thousands of games, more than the next group of people combined.

Is it satisfying for you to not just compete but also win in these Speed Chess Championship matches against them? I don't see it that way at all. If I'm playing, it's mine to lose. Hikaru has beaten me once, and it was close the other time. I think he's really good at this format, but I still feel that this is mine to lose. I've won seven more World Blitz championships than Hikaru has. He's really good, but I do feel that I'm better and that I have a score to settle. I tend to agree, just purely as a spectator. World Blitz championships aside, when we focus specifically on the online scene, there was a narrative for quite some time when you weren't so active on chess.com or in the Speed Chess Championship. People wondered if we would ever see you match up in one-zero or one-plus-one formats, and now we are getting that answer.

Ali Rza is obviously there, and now Alza is right there. There's no clear favorite in the other match also because Hikaru, I feel, is getting a little bit weaker. My average level is also a bit lower than it was in 2017 or 2018. In 2018, I was really good, even at bullet chess. It would have been interesting to see if I'd played a match against Hikaru at 30-0, which we've never done. That's the one outstanding question: who is actually better in that format?

One of the things I was going to ask you about is a secret match Hikaru mentioned on Lex Fridman's show. He talked about a match he played against you in a hotel room, maybe in Moscow in 2019 or 2017. No, that was long before, in 2010. Apparently, you played around 100 games against each other, and he called it one of the biggest mistakes of his career, saying he gave you too much insight into his openings. Ever since he gave that interview, I've wanted to ask: what are your impressions of that match? Do you agree it was a big mistake on his part? What were your impressions after playing him in some 80 Blitz games?

=> 00:14:42

Even the best need to face their fears and rivals to grow stronger and make the game more interesting.

After playing him in some 80 Blitz games, I think as far as I can remember, in 2009, I had probably my best Blitz performance of all time. I won the World Blitz Championship by a lot over Anand, who also had a great tournament then. In 2010, I started out strong, beating Hiar in the first round and winning the first four games. However, at some point, things started going south, I lost my confidence, and I ended up third.

I had this idea to challenge Iar to a 100-game Blitz match, but we ended up doing 40. For the first hour, maybe hour and a half, I was playing really well and was ahead by a huge score. After that, it was fairly even. I don't remember if I won by seven or eight in the end. Maybe for him, that was a humbling experience since he felt that when we were both giving it our all, I was better. However, I never thought it was a massive deal. It might have affected him against me for the next few years, but I'm happy he got over that at some point, regained his confidence, and showed the level he's capable of. The chess world has become more interesting since that happened.

Hikaru was known as the best online Blitz player back in those days. He had the highest Blitz rating of all time for a long time until Grishuk surpassed it. On one of my accounts, I matched Grishuk's peak. Generally, Hikaru was probably the best at that point. We never played that much, but I thought he was the best at 3-minute Blitz and at least at 1-minute Bullet. That's why I wanted to challenge him.

As for others, Alza and I played 100-plus Bullet matches on consecutive nights. He was winning, not by much but by a bit. Ever since, we haven't played that much, and I've generally been a little bit better when we have played. That's the closest I've come to that kind of marathon match since then.

Let's put Alireza and Hikaru aside for a second and address the elephant in the room: my semi-final matchup against Hans Niemann. Over the last two years, it's been a pretty crazy turn of events. Throughout my career, I've had rivals, though I don't want to call them exactly rivals because I've managed to ultimately defeat everybody I've played. People have tried to cling to little things like Fabiano being very close to me in rating or Yan Nepomniachtchi having some sort of plus score against me before our match. Even with Hikaru in Blitz and Bullet, people try to find ways to make me seem not invincible. However, I've never had a villain, and this is almost how I feel this situation is developing.

=> 00:19:29

Chess is my job and my favorite hobby—I'll keep playing as long as I enjoy it and stay strong.

It's interesting that you mention this. Obviously, Y and I are on good terms, but it did still annoy me when people were saying that this was like a 55-45 or 60-40 proposition before the match. I was thinking, "Really, what have I done to deserve this?" This situation is quite different. Nean has certainly become a lot better at chess in the last couple of years. I don't know exactly how good he is, but it seems that he has become a lot stronger. Even though it's a matchup I certainly didn't want, it's going to be interesting from a pure chess perspective to see what he can do.

If I may, I have always wondered, for example, I thought you were totally going to play him in the team event in Kazakhstan because I just sort of thought, well, you're matched up on the teams, you wouldn't not play him there. Is it just one of these things where everybody that you play against is generally kind of even-keeled and respectful, and with him, it's like you almost feel you don't have something to gain because if you win, it's not a story, and if he wins, it kind of is? Or is there anything beyond just that?

There isn't a lot beyond that. I think it's as simple as if there was an out, I took it. In this case, there isn't, so I'm playing. That's sort of what I also thought. I guess really the only other thing is he's won a couple of matches to get here, right? He beat Wesley and he beat MVL. I would argue MVL in this format is definitely the more impressive of the two. I don't know if you watched those matches or studied them at all. What were your thoughts?

Those matches were certainly both very exciting. Critical games could have gone either way. I did think that both Maxim and Wesley were going to be favorites, but not huge favorites. Neither of them are good enough to control matches. Wesley is a very strong player, but he's also really emotional. I feel like when things get out of control for him, he can really spiral. Like I played him in the Speed Chess Championship twice, and both times when he started losing, he just collapsed. I thought you could see that in the match against Nean as well, that he at some point lost control a bit, or a lot. But yeah, it's certainly an impressive feat to beat them both.

Last question: what exactly is your status in chess? Are you retired, semi-retired? You play one or two classical tournaments, which used to be the gold standard. You have to play classical chess; it's all about the candidate cycle. It seems for you, it's just about enjoying yourself. You play whatever you like, you don't play whatever you don't like. Even that is unique because in tennis, for example, it's not like we will see someone maybe play the Laver Cup and then call it a day. But you still play way more than that. So, what's your status and what's the future of chess in five years going to look like with you and just in general?

I think you summed it up pretty well. Chess, as well as being my job, is my favorite hobby. I enjoy most of chess a lot, and I play those modes a lot. The modes that I don't like, I don't play as much. I play more when there's a special occasion. It's not like I dislike the idea of playing classical chess, which is also why we're getting these freestyle chess tournaments next year, which I'm really excited about. I like the idea of sitting down and thinking really hard about a game, but there needs to be something other than making a strange move on the seventh move in the Ruy Lopez because all of the best lines have been played. So yeah, I love chess, and if I don't lose my strength in the next couple of years, I'll certainly continue to play.

Actually, sorry, there will be one more question. What do you see as your legacy in chess? Because every world champion has something they do differently and goes on to inspire the nation. Kasparov goes for politics, Karpov goes for whatever he's going for. Do you ever think about your legacy after you're done playing?

My general message is that chess is a great game; it's fun trying to bring that to a lot of people. But most of all, in my career, I've been pragmatically trying to learn but also win as much as I've been able to. Legacy? I haven't really thought too much about that. There are still things to be done.

On that note, thank you, Magnus.

Thank you.