I confronted Hikaru Nakamura about MAGNUS and HANS

From Grandmaster to content creator, life evolves but the passion for chess remains strong.

I'm joined by Grandmaster Hikaru Nakamura here at the 2024 Speech Championship Finals in Paris, France. Hikaru, welcome to Paris. It's been a little while since you were here. Can you take me back to the last time you played a chess tournament in Paris and how life's changed?

Yeah, life has changed a lot. I think from 2015 through 2019, I played the Grand Chester here. I did actually win the event, I believe in 2016, so I have some fond memories of playing in Paris. But in 2020, the pandemic happened, and it's my first time back since then. A lot has changed. Nowadays, I'm more of a content creator than a professional player, whereas in 2019 when I was last here, I was definitely a professional chess player and pretty much nothing else. So a lot has changed, but I think for me at least, it's been for the best.

Now, as far as the SEC goes, you have played in every single final that there's been, but this one is unique because you will have a live audience. Does that stimulate the emotions at all? Does that change the way you approach things or not too much?

Well, you know, it's funny because it's actually not the first time I played the SEC in front of a live audience. But this is the first time that it's not by choice. Back in 2018, I think it was January, it was called the 2017 Speech House Championship. I played against Magnus Carlsen from South Africa, from Johannesburg, which actually technically is not the capital, but I was in Johannesburg at a youth event there. I did play Magnus in an auditorium probably in front of 50 to 100 people. The event didn't go very well for me, but this will be the second time. I think having done that was a little bit different because that was more my own choice. I wanted to provide for the local community, a lot of kids who had never seen me in person before. So that was my own doing, and I think in retrospect, it was a fairly big mistake. I wasn't a streamer yet, I wasn't really used to it. Whereas now, obviously, I've made a lot of content and I have been at some events like the Pro Chess League as well, which I think was pre-pandemic where there was a big audience. But it should be a lot of fun, and it's something different, so I'm looking forward to it.

You've talked a bit about how when you play virtually at certain critical moments, you'll look in the camera to see a player's reaction. Here, you'll be kind of face to face. I mean, not really because you will be looking at the screen, but do you think that gives you a little bit of an edge to see their reaction up close in person, or is it about the same?

Well, I mean, I think it depends on the player. I think someone like Ali Reza, who I'm playing against, he's either very calm or he's very emotional. I don't think there's any in-between. So, I don't think there are going to be little tells, let's put it that way. I think if I'm playing very well, I'll know if he's on form, how he's feeling. Someone like Magnus, I think, is a little bit different because he's generally always calm. He doesn't show a lot of emotion. So when you can see those little ticks, it does make a difference. But at least in the first match, I don't think that's going to be a big issue either way.

You are the oldest participant in the event, so let's just address the elephant in the room. As far as chess goes, it's becoming a younger and younger game.

=> 00:03:52

Experience and resilience can outshine youthful talent.

Becoming a younger and younger game, chess now sees prodigies as young as 12 or 13 years old. Some participants here are around 20 and 21 years old. Despite this, you have all the experience and are still number two in the world, with extensive experience both online and offline. How does that play a role in your approach to the semi-finals?

You know, I think every place is a little bit different. Coming here to Paris, we already spoke about how I played the Grand Chess Tour, but actually, the first major international competition I ever played was in France, in KH, all the way back in 1997—before either Ali Reza or Hans were even born. I am reminded pretty much every day when I travel of these ancient, bygone memories from a different time. Certainly, having the experience of playing in many events over the years, especially the Speed Chess Championship, does play a role. The most important thing is to avoid tilt, and I've done that very well for the most part in this championship. The experience can't be underestimated, and that's why I've always done so well in the Speed Chess Championship.

Looking into the future, you have all these amazing past memories from your travels. Where do you see Hikaru Nakamura fitting into chess in five years, and what does chess look like in five years?

That's a very good question. I haven't hidden my intentions; I think I have maybe one or two more candidate cycles left. For myself, the biggest impediment to playing professionally is more about motivation than anything else. I find it quite difficult to find the motivation to study and be inspired to play chess. We'll see how long I can keep it going. I think in the next couple of years, I will still be very competitive at the top level, but five years from now, it's anybody's guess whether I'll be playing professionally anymore.

Now, there are a lot of junior players—Gukesh, who's playing for the world championship, Arjun Prag from India, and Ali Reza, who seems to be finding his form once again. The future is very bright, and we'll see which junior ultimately takes over and dominates the game the way Magnus did. When I look at my generation and what we've contributed, and now see the kids taking everything we've given to the game and improving their own game, it's a very bright future for chess as a whole.

Let's talk about some of your fellow competitors. You're playing Ali Reza in the first round, but let's discuss what everybody wants to talk about—Hans Niemann. You've had a long career with rivals, but generally, in chess, everything is relatively peaceful. With Hans, it's not like that; he doesn't back down from saying whatever he wants about you, especially over the last year.

=> 00:07:12

Using hate as fuel only gets you so far; at some point, you need to chill and go with the flow.

Does that fuel you? Does that change the way you approach a match, a potential match, let's say here in Paris or just in general? Do you like that or do you prefer the other approach to having rivals?

I mean, I think times change and people change. I would say for myself, certainly when I was younger, I'd look at myself along the same vein as someone who really used being disliked, being a bad boy of chess, to my advantage as sort of the fuel and the fire to get better. But as I've gotten older, I've mellowed out a lot and I look at life quite a bit differently. So, I don't really look at it that way. I don't think that it's something that gives me motivation. It's more just that I try to chill and go with the flow.

When you make content creation, especially as opposed to being just solely a professional player, you learn to stop taking yourself so seriously. For myself, now that I'm in that phase, I listen to some of the things Hans says. I think they're somewhat misguided, but I also let it roll right off my back. I don't really think about him that much. I'm sure he thinks about me a lot more than I do. It's a style he has, but you can only use hatred or dislike, or have the "me against the world" attitude, to a certain extent. At some point, you have to be a little bit more practical.

I would even say for myself, I think I got to 2700 pretty much with that attitude, but you have to make certain changes. Sooner or later, I assume Hans will mellow out. He's had a huge jump and he's quite high in the rankings now, but that attitude is only going to get you so far.

Have you had to prepare for him just as a hypothetical opponent here? You might play him, you don't know yet. Have you studied his games, broken him down in the 5-1, 3-1, 1-1, or not really?

I just started doing a little bit of preparation yesterday for Alireza. For myself, as I said before, the biggest issue is motivation and finding that motivation to be serious about chess. It's one of the reasons I don't play a lot of classical chess because I find it very difficult. So, I pick tournaments here or there and have long breaks without playing.

Long answer short, no, I haven't even considered it yet. If it does happen, then of course I'll do some preparation. But looking at the matches as a whole, a match against Hans in general feels like 99% of the matches I've played in the SEC historically. I'm always a big favorite in the bullet portion. You can say it's a good or bad thing, but it certainly has helped me over the years that there is a 30-minute bullet portion at the end of the match. I've won many matches in that fashion over the last two or three years against MVL, Nepo, Ding, where I've had to come back.

For myself, I haven't really thought about it much because if I play Hans, as long as I don't do anything too stupid in the 5-1 or 3-1, I'm a huge favorite in the bullet. It could be very much like all my other matches, but we'll see if that happens.

=> 00:10:30

Age is catching up, but strategy and experience can still win the game.

On that note, we should talk about Ali Reza. In one of the last interviews before this finale here in Paris, you mentioned that he's the only one in the world who can compete with you and Magnus in bullet. This year, in the Bullet Championship, he actually managed to beat you. What did you learn from that match, if anything?

What I've learned is that I'm getting older. In bullet, I'm still very good at it, but in a lot of recent bullet games I've played, both against Ali Reza and other players like Daniel Nitki or Alexander Bordnick, I've noticed that if I get into scrambles where I have eight or nine seconds and they have five or six seconds, I'm losing these scrambles simply because I'm just not as fast as I once was. The main thing is that I'm getting older and it's mostly about trying to avoid such situations. That being said, the bullet here is with an increment, it's 1+1, not 1+0, which oddly enough gives me much better chances because in pure scrambles, I'm just not fast enough. I definitely feel it whenever I play the Bullet Brawl on chess.com. I still do very well overall, but if I get into these scrambles, I just lose them now, even against some of the other kids or Turkish kids as well, like E is Gell. If we get down to 10 seconds or less, I just lose some if it's not simple. So mostly, it's just that I'm getting older and trying to finish the games or avoid getting into those situations as much as I can control it.

The last time we chatted like this, it was before the Candidates, and in that tournament, Ali Reza had a second bad Candidates in a row. You've been quite open about the pressure of the Candidates, especially early in your career. Do you have any theories on why he's won so many events this year but has struggled so much in two Candidates back-to-back?

At the end of the day, it signifies one of the big issues with chess, which is that becoming world champion is decided on one or two performances. It comes down to the Candidates and a World Championship match. You can play ten great tournaments in the year, but if you don't play well in the Candidates, you're essentially a failure. It's one of the things I dislike about chess. If you look at Ali Reza's performance overall, he's probably had one of the best, if not the best, performances in 2024. But at the end of the day, everyone will probably think, "Who cares? He didn't do well in the Candidates." That's the only one that matters. I am hopeful that in the future, maybe the formats will change a little bit more to include more events or be based on overall performances. I don't know if that's actually going to happen, but I would like to see it because I think Ali Reza gets unnecessary flack for the Candidates. Otherwise, he's done great. If all the tournaments were equal with the same level of pressure, he probably would do fine. But when there's so much pressure around one event, it changes quite a bit. That's why you see in the Candidates event, it's not reflective of who the best players are generally. It's reflective of who plays the best, who is the most consistent, and who doesn't have a meltdown. I think Ali Reza will probably figure it out at some point, but it just hasn't worked in the Candidates for him.

On September 9th morning, you wake up as the SECC champion. What do you have to do to win two matches in order to achieve the title?

To win the Speed Championship, it's pretty straightforward. As far as the first match goes, I've said this on some of my streams: I have to get off to a pretty good start in the 5+1 portion. If you look at the Speed Championship this year, I've gotten off to a bad start in every single match. Against Nepo, it was a pretty disastrous start. Against Jose Martinez L Contra, I think I might have even lost the first game to him too. The main thing is I have to get off to a good start. I can't be in a situation where I feel like I can just cruise along and then take it home in the bullet. If I start off well against Ali Reza, I think I have very good chances. If I'm not down at the end of the 5+1 portion, then I think I'll probably win.

As far as Magnus or Hans, they are very different. Against Hans, I should be the favorite, pretty much no matter what. But if I beat Ali Reza, there's a 90% chance plus that I'm playing Magnus. If I play Magnus, I have to use every trick in the bag. When Magnus started off poorly against me two years ago in the Speed Championship, I started milking the clock in the 3+1 and the 1+1, using that strategy to great effect. That's part of the strategy against Magnus. Against anybody else, it's completely irrelevant; you don't want to even think along those lines. But Magnus is the best player on the field, and if you can reduce the number of games, that gives you a better chance. More variance if you play like 10 games versus 12 or 13. If I beat Ali Reza and play Magnus, I have to hope that Magnus is not super sharp at the start or keep it very close to the bullet. If that happens, I can win, but it's an uphill battle.

Hikaru, thanks so much. I don't know where we're going to cut this interview, but if we cut it here, then all the best with the Speed Chess Championship. Thank you.