Hyperledger Permissioned & Permissionless Blockchains, Besu Ethereum, Amazon, CBDCs, Tokenization
Table of contents
- Investing in private equity before companies go public can be a game changer for your portfolio.
- In the world of blockchain, it's not just about Bitcoin; it's about building a collaborative future through open-source innovation.
- Open collaboration is the key to unlocking the true potential of blockchain technology for business.
- The future of blockchain is a multiverse, blending permissioned and permissionless systems to meet diverse business and sustainability needs.
- In the world of blockchain, it's not about one solution fitting all; it's about finding the right balance between public transparency and private control to meet diverse needs.
- In the world of blockchain, privacy is key, but remember: even in anonymity, identities can still be uncovered.
- Interoperability is the future of blockchain; as networks connect, the possibilities for asset exchange expand.
- Open source technology thrives on community, ensuring stability and trust beyond any single company.
- Open source technology empowers businesses to innovate without reinventing the wheel, allowing them to focus on what truly differentiates their products.
- Empowering developers to address real needs is the key to innovation; we facilitate the ecosystem, not just build it.
- In a rapidly evolving crypto landscape, clarity in regulations is essential for fostering innovation and trust in blockchain technology.
- The future is all about transparency; imagine a world where every action you take shows its true impact on the environment and society.
Investing in private equity before companies go public can be a game changer for your portfolio.
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Welcome back to The Thinking Crypto podcast, your home for cryptocurrency news and interviews. With me today is Karen Ottoni, who is the Senior Director of Ecosystem and Strategic Initiatives at the Hyperledger Foundation. Karen, it's great to have you on.
Thank you so much. I'm happy to be here and talk to you.
Well, Karen, I've heard a lot about the Hyperledger Foundation for years. I've seen the Hyperledger Foundation mentioned, or Hyperledger Fabric mentioned on Amazon's website, and I've seen you guys working on different projects. I've always been curious because it's something that is not really part of the open crypto market per se, as it's a private blockchain and network. So, I want to ask you a ton of questions (laughs) about what you guys are doing.
Let's start with your background. Tell us about yourself, where you're from, and where you grew up.
- Okay, sure. I am originally from Brazil, which is relevant now just because it's very exciting to me about what's going on with Brazil and the CBDC announcement that they've been making. But I grew up here in the US and have lived a little bit everywhere; we just connected on living in Brooklyn. My background is completely non-technical. So, I'm one of the ones who just came in and got really excited about what was happening in blockchain. My background is in international development and international relations; that's what I went to school for. I used to live and work abroad, having traveled and lived in East Africa, working on US government funded projects there. So that was my other life (laughs).
Then I went to school, and during my MBA, when I was looking for what I wanted to do next, I really wanted to do something that still had a mission focus. I still wanted to be a part of positive change in the world, which is why I did my previous work, but with a business focus. I just so happened to talk to someone who was working on blockchain, and they started talking about Bitcoin. I looked up the Wikipedia for Bitcoin and was like, "this is interesting." I then ended up joining this team. That's when I went to Tata Consulting Services, where we were really, in 2016, just kind of getting people socialized on what blockchain is and what this new technology entails. I did a lot of workshops and training there. From there, I moved to Hyperledger, and I've been at Hyperledger for about five years or so.
Wow.
Yeah. I'll stop there.
And then you mentioned someone told you about Bitcoin. Did you end up investing in it or just more studying it?
At that time, first, when I joined Tata, I did like do a little bit. I think I kind of came in where...
In the world of blockchain, it's not just about Bitcoin; it's about building a collaborative future through open-source innovation.
In 2016, I was primarily focused on socializing people about blockchain technology. This involved conducting numerous workshops and training sessions to help others understand what blockchain is and how it works. After that initial phase, I transitioned to Hyperledger, where I have been for about five years now.
When I first joined Tata, someone introduced me to Bitcoin, and I did invest a little at that time when it was around $600. However, I did not invest my life savings, so while I can't claim to be Bitcoin rich, it has been exciting to witness the growth of the technology. At that point, I had just graduated from school and didn't have much money to invest, which is a common situation for many.
Many people may not be familiar with Hyperledger, so let me provide some background. When individuals hear about Hyperledger, they often think of its applications, such as in supply chain management, or they might have heard about Hyperledger Fabric. However, it’s important to clarify that Hyperledger is not just one product or technology. We are an open source foundation that operates under the Linux Foundation. This affiliation allows us to leverage over 20 years of experience in managing open source projects.
Currently, Hyperledger encompasses about 15 to 16 open source projects that cater to various needs within the Distributed Ledger Technology (DLT) space. Some of these projects include Hyperledger Fabric, Hyperledger Besu, Hyperledger Iroha, and Hyperledger Sawtooth, which are all layer one technologies capable of supporting a wide range of blockchain use cases. Additionally, we offer various tools and libraries, such as a verifiable credential project that serves as a standard for digital identity initiatives.
Our primary goal at Hyperledger is to enhance enterprises' ability to utilize this technology to further their business objectives. The foundation was established when a group of about 25 companies, including notable names like JP Morgan, Digital Asset, DTDC, and IBM, came together. They recognized the potential of the Bitcoin blockchain and wanted to leverage it for business purposes. They understood that this needed to be developed in an open manner, leading to the inception of Hyperledger Fabric at the end of 2015.
Since then, Hyperledger has played a crucial role in bridging the gap between the permissionless crypto space and the more permissioned environments where enterprises operate. We strive to find ways for these two realms to benefit from one another, creating synergies that can advance the use of blockchain technology in business.
Open collaboration is the key to unlocking the true potential of blockchain technology for business.
There's this Bitcoin blockchain thing going on, and we want to leverage this for business. The question arises: how can we do that? It needs to be built in the open; we can't do this all on our own. This was sort of the seed for the start of Hyperledger Fabric at the end of 2015. Since then, we've really played this role of kind of being this in-between of the permissionless crypto space with cryptocurrencies and the more permissioned space where enterprises are operating. We are trying to pull the two together (laughs) and see how they can benefit from each other.
I appreciate that overview. Some big names involved in starting this include JP Morgan and IBM, as you mentioned. So, a question for you, Linux: is this the same Linux, the operating system, the open-source operating system that goes back years? I've used Ubuntu years ago. Is this the same Linux that we're talking about here?
Yes, it is. So, Linus Torvalds, who invented Linux, is still an employee of the Linux Foundation. Wow! It started with that. He made that technology openly available for anyone to use, which is what catalyzed a lot of the computing industry we know today because it was openly available. This is really a deep part of our philosophy. Now, the Linux Foundation hosts many other open-source projects. We are one of them, focused on the DLT blockchain space, but there are others that are on cloud computing and all kinds of other things.
That's awesome! I mean, Linux has a huge pedigree in operating systems and anything computer-based. So, for Hyperledger, it is, correct me if I'm wrong, fully a permissioned blockchain, right? Or is there like a permissionless version? Are there plans to have it have interoperability with permissionless blockchains?
Yes. Like I mentioned earlier, we have several DLTs that are part of our ecosystem. Some of them have different capabilities because each one was developed by a group of developers or companies coming together and saying, "We want to build a thing because it's missing, and we need it to do this or that." We want to build it together so that it can be neutral and not depend on any one organization. So, Fabric is permissioned; you can't use Fabric publicly. However, we do have Hyperledger Besu, which is an EVM. It can be used permissioned or public as well.
Got it. And the Besu, if I'm saying that right, does that have a native token? It sounds like it's based on the Ethereum blockchain. Does it have a native token?
So, there is not necessarily a native token for Besu, but if you want to use it publicly, you can then decide what you want to use given any of the ERC tokens. Ah, okay. Got it.
You mentioned interoperability earlier. We have a couple of projects that focus on that as well. Hyperledger Cacti is a project that enables the communication and transfer of assets between two different ledgers. The team is constantly working to add new ledgers that are supported by Cacti. Hyperledger FireFly is also another project, another code base within our family, that's focused on interoperability as well, but by the Kaleido team.
Wow! There's so many different branches off this Hyperledger tree, which is great. (Karen laughs) So, let's say in a mock scenario: I am Apple as a company. I can use these different...
The future of blockchain is a multiverse, blending permissioned and permissionless systems to meet diverse business and sustainability needs.
Hyperledger Cacti is a project that enables the communication and transfer of assets between two different ledgers. The team is constantly working to add new ledgers that are supported by Cacti. Hyperledger FireFly is another project within our family, also focused on interoperability, developed by the Kaleido team.
There are many different branches off this Hyperledger tree, which is great. For instance, let's consider a mock scenario where I am Apple as a company. I can utilize these different Hyperledger products in various aspects. Perhaps I would use Hyperledger Fabric for more internal items, Hyperledger Besu for a more public interface, and other products as well. Essentially, I can do that, right?
For example, if Apple wanted to create an NFT marketplace, they could leverage Hyperledger Besu to do so. There are existing examples of this, such as Palm NFT, which has had many significant trades and showcased works from big-name artists. Therefore, Apple could create their own NFT marketplace using Besu.
Additionally, consider Apple's entire supply chain for producing their phones and computers, including the microchip supply chain. They have a whole system of different companies they work with along that value chain. They could use Hyperledger Fabric to build a supply chain DLT that assists them in tracking those products along the value chain or managing trade finance at various aspects of the supply chain. For instance, Walmart has built something similar, and Circular has done comparable work for minerals sourced from Rwanda, specifically tracking tungsten mineral supply chains for sustainability purposes. They ensure that these minerals come from higher-quality mines. Circular has also applied this approach to coffee, highlighting the sustainability aspect. By using DLT in their value chain, companies can achieve both business goals and sustainability goals.
Now, I wonder if we can dive a bit into the concepts of permission versus permissionless blockchains. This is still a fairly new concept for many folks, including some of my listeners and viewers. The future will likely be a combination of both; companies will use permissioned blockchains for private matters, while also engaging with permissionless systems, as you rightly outlined in various use cases.
The difference between these two types of blockchains and the ecosystem moving forward is crucial. I appreciate that you mention this because, for a while, there was a reluctance to acknowledge it. Many maximalists believed that we would transition to an all-public system. I'm sure there are many listeners who share that view, and it would indeed be amazing if we reached that point one day. However, our goal is not to influence the direction one way or another. We aim to make blockchain work for people today. From the very beginning, our viewpoint has been that there won't be one blockchain to rule them all; instead, we will live in a multiverse of blockchains. It’s a spectrum, and there will be use cases where public blockchains are more appropriate.
In the world of blockchain, it's not about one solution fitting all; it's about finding the right balance between public transparency and private control to meet diverse needs.
The discussion revolves around the concept of maximalists and the idea of being all public all the way. The speaker acknowledges that many listeners may align with this perspective, and expresses hope that society may reach that point one day. However, they clarify that they are not trying to influence the outcome in any particular direction. Their primary goal is to make it work for people today.
From the very beginning, their viewpoint has been that there won't be one blockchain to rule them all; instead, we will exist in a multiverse of blockchains. This creates a spectrum of uses, where some applications can be fully public, which is safe and easy to use, while others require more control. The speaker emphasizes that the distinction between public and private blockchains is often viewed through the lens of transaction visibility. While it is true that public means I can see all the transactions, and private means I can't see all the transactions, the more critical aspect is actually who's writing the ledger.
The speaker explains that control over who can add information or transactions to the ledger is essential in certain situations. For example, in the case of Apple integrating all of its suppliers onto one ledger, it would be inappropriate to allow any random company that is not a supplier to access that ledger. Furthermore, there are privacy concerns; for instance, one supplier should not be privy to the transaction details between Apple and another supplier, or to the visibility of contracts that could be accessible to competitors or peers.
While the speaker acknowledges the walled garden argument, they stress that there are scenarios where the technology is not yet advanced enough to operate fully in a public manner. They express optimism that advancements in privacy, security, and zero-knowledge proofs are underway, but recognize that we are not there yet. Companies cannot afford to wait for these developments; they need to engage with the innovation and accelerate its progress. The speaker reiterates their commitment to bridge that gap and facilitate enterprise involvement in this space.
Privacy is particularly crucial for companies, banks, and financial institutions, as they do not want individuals' private information exposed. Even with the advantages of cutting out a middleman by using blockchain, the need for privacy remains significant. The speaker points out that, despite the anonymity offered by public chains, it has been shown that identities can still be triangulated. They look forward to the resolution of these issues, as solving them will unlock more use cases in the future.
Finally, the speaker invites feedback, asking, "So tell me if I'm wrong."
In the world of blockchain, privacy is key, but remember: even in anonymity, identities can still be uncovered.
Even though you're cutting out a middleman and using the blockchain, there's still a need for privacy. It has been demonstrated over and over that even with the anonymity that you can have on a public chain, things can be triangulated, and you can still kind of determine someone's identity. I look forward to those problems being solved, as this will unlock more use cases, right? Once that's possible.
Now, let me clarify something about Hyperledger. What protocol does Hyperledger use? I know there are different branches on this tree. Many blockchains have specific protocols, validators, and nodes. For instance, the Bitcoin blockchain has miners. So, how does that structure work with the permissioned version and the permissionless, as far as protocol?
Depending on which one you're using, they are their own independent protocols. They are not leveraging anything out there from the public, like Paxos or others, except for Besu, which is coming from the Ethereum community. Besu originated from the Ethereum community and was built by Consensus as part of their enterprise offering. It is one of the few clients that the Ethereum blockchain has. The others are essentially built from scratch.
In terms of mining and consensus, it works differently in a permissioned network. You have different kinds of consensus mechanisms that you can use. For example, with Fabric, there are a couple of options you can choose from, such as Kafka and BFT. However, this is dependent upon the actors, the network, and the consortium that is built.
One thing that maybe people don't realize is that there is only one public Ethereum. In contrast, there are thousands of Fabric networks that do not talk to each other. When you use Fabric, Sawtooth, or Iroha to build something, you are creating something that is independent because it is purpose-built for a specific use case. For instance, consider the Apple supply chain use case example; it's built for that closed network of participants.
To provide a real example, we can look at the Walmart Food Trust, which operates similarly. Walmart collaborates with its suppliers on a Hyperledger Fabric network. The hypothetical Apple supply chain network cannot communicate with the Walmart food supply chain network; they are independent consortia that were built separately. However, I believe this will change.
As I mentioned earlier, Hyperledger Cacti is one of our tools that helps ledgers talk to each other. The goal is that eventually, if networks need to connect, that will be possible. This is a significant difference between public and permissioned networks: in public, there's one chain, whereas in permissioned networks, every project is its own existing network.
For example, if JP Morgan and IBM decide to use a specific aspect of Hyperledger, that collaboration is limited to just the two of them.
Interoperability is the future of blockchain; as networks connect, the possibilities for asset exchange expand.
But that I think will change. We have, as I mentioned earlier, Hyperledger Cacti, which is one of our tools that helps ledgers talk to each other and speak to each other. The goal is that, eventually, if networks do need to connect to each other, that is possible. However, there is a big difference between public and permissioned networks. In public networks, there is one chain, whereas in permissioned networks, every project is its own existing network.
For example, JP Morgan and IBM might decide to use this aspect of Hyperledger. Their collaboration would be between the two of them, and no one else would necessarily know about it. They come to an agreement on how that is set up and how it operates in their transactions. I do think that more and more of these networks are going to interconnect. From the very beginning, we have always hoped for interoperability. Initially, there wasn't a clear path to achieving that, but over the last seven years, we have advanced significantly. Now, there is not only a path but also actual tools that can be used to facilitate this interconnection.
This has been implemented in a variety of situations. One notable example is a test conducted last year by the Banque de France as part of their CBDC research. They tested using Hyperledger Fabric to transfer assets from a Hyperledger Fabric ledger to a Corda Ledger, utilizing Hyperledger Cacti to facilitate that transfer. I believe we will start to see more instances like this because people want to exchange assets, which is really what it's all about.
As far as use cases go, certainly tokenization of any asset is a key area. You mentioned CBDCs, and there are also NFTs, tokenized bonds, and stocks. Yes, absolutely. For instance, there is TOKO, which was developed by DLA Piper. They have a tokenized platform that uses Hyperledger Fabric along with Hedera, enabling the tokenization of securities, art, media, and real estate. This platform is fully launched, in production, and live.
Another exciting project is Project Genesis, which was an experiment conducted with the Bank of International Settlements (BIS) and the Hong Kong Innovation Center. They developed a platform for tokenizing green bonds, using Hyperledger Besu for the origination, subscription, settlement, and secondary trading of these bonds. This is particularly exciting to me because it showcases how our technologies can be applied to sustainability efforts.
In our community, we have a climate action special interest group that has been very active in identifying use cases for how our technologies can be utilized for carbon emissions tracking. Essentially, it's a ledger, and you can use it for anything. There are numerous exciting use cases emerging in this area.
A while back, I read on Amazon's website, specifically on their Amazon Managed Blockchain solutions services page, that they mentioned Ethereum and then Hyperledger. This raises the question: what can folks do through Amazon?
Open source technology thrives on community, ensuring stability and trust beyond any single company.
Our climate action special interest group has been really, really active in identifying use cases for how our technologies can be used for carbon emissions tracking. There's just a lot of potential; it's a ledger, right? You can use it for anything, and so there are lots of exciting use cases like that.
A while back, I read on Amazon's website, under their Amazon managed blockchain solutions services page, they mentioned Ethereum and then I saw Hyperledger. So, tell us about that. What can folks do going through Amazon?
The DLTs that are part of the Hyperledger Foundation require some experience to really build effectively. It’s not easy to build from necessarily day one. Of course, there's a lot of business that has been built around that. We have a vendor directory that's full of companies that can help you build on Fabric, on Besu, on Sawtooth, Iroha, and everything that we have within our code bases. Additionally, we have certified service providers. This is what the Amazon managed blockchain service offers to help with. If anyone wants to build a use case that leverages the capabilities of Fabric or needs to be a permission use case, Amazon has designed an easy way to start and deploy Fabric.
They're not the only ones in this space. IBM, Microsoft, and other companies have also built solutions on top that make it easy for you to just get started and build your project.
Now, let’s say I’m a business leader, perhaps Tim Cook from Apple, watching this podcast. If I'm interested in leveraging Hyperledger, is it a paid service that I go through the foundation to get all these things up and running?
No, we are a nonprofit organization. Everything that we do is really aimed at building the community. We are a membership-based organization. What funds our operations are members joining—people, organizations, and companies that are using our technologies and building their businesses on top of it. They want to see the stability and longevity of that technology. We manage the health of the community and help ensure that it continues to operate.
The reason why this is valued is that it aligns with our ethos of open source overall. We are a neutral organization where this technology can be housed, independent of any one company's future. We've seen how certain networks can fluctuate significantly; companies can be here today and gone tomorrow. The advantage of contributing your code base to the Hyperledger Foundation is that our job is to diversify the contributors and bring in new participants. This way, it can be something that businesses can count on.
Big businesses are building, as I mentioned, production networks on top of our technologies. Governments are also starting to engage with us. For instance, the British Columbia government has done incredible work around digital identity using our technologies, Indy and Aries, which I hadn't mentioned yet. They trust open source because it isn’t dependent on any one organization; it is neutral. We have a whole set of governance around how we manage the community and the code base, which adds to the value of using our technologies.
Open source technology empowers businesses to innovate without reinventing the wheel, allowing them to focus on what truly differentiates their products.
Big businesses are building production networks on top of our technologies. Governments are starting to do this as well; for instance, the British Columbia government has done incredible work around digital identity using our technologies, Indy and Aries, which I hadn't mentioned yet. Those are our digital identity focused technologies.
They trust open source because it isn't dependent on any one organization; it is neutral. We have a whole set of governance around how we manage the community and the code base. This is the value of using open source technologies. Of course, this approach does not preclude anyone from building their products and services on top of it. It does not take away anyone's secret sauce. What we do is house and manage the core technology that is not differentiating, which alleviates the investment of resources that companies need to allocate to that. Instead, they can focus on the higher value products and services that are more differentiating. This is where our members and our ecosystem compete.
It makes sense to have all these companies, including some of the biggest companies in the world, come together and have a neutral playground, so to speak. They can go back to the foundation while building their own things on proprietary setups, DLTs, and so forth. You don’t need to reinvent the wheel; compete where the competition is and differentiate where you have a true value add. That is really what we offer: don’t spend your resources on where you don’t need to.
Now, regarding the EVM or the Ethereum blockchain and Besu—is that the one based on it? Yes, it is spelled B-E-S-U. It’s a Japanese word that I think means flower, but I’m not totally sure now. Are there plans to integrate or build other products with other blockchains? You mentioned one customer was using Hedera; are there plans to integrate Hedera, Avalanche, or any other blockchains?
What we do is bring in those technologies that will facilitate that. The beauty of our point of view is that we get to watch the magic happen as people take a Hyperledger code base and build it for novel use cases. We have a use case tracker on our website with tons of examples of what is being built out there, and this is happening more and more with a lot of different networks.
We have a project called Hyperledger Solan, which is an EVM compiler, specifically a Solidity compiler, so that EVM developers can participate in the Solana ecosystem. There are so many cool things being done like that. Many of these new projects come from Hyperledger Labs, where we incubate new projects and help a group of developers working on something they’ve identified a need for. For example, there was a clear need for EVM developers who wanted to participate but couldn’t. A group of people created that solution and contributed to the foundation so that anyone can use it.
What’s really cool is that we get to talk about, share, and promote what everyone is doing. We don’t actually build anything ourselves; we are simply facilitating that process.
Empowering developers to address real needs is the key to innovation; we facilitate the ecosystem, not just build it.
At Hyperledger, our mission is to incubate new projects that assist a group of developers working on solutions they've identified as necessary. For instance, there was clearly a need for EVM developers who wanted to participate but lacked the means to do so. In response, a group of individuals came together to create a solution and contributed to the foundation, ensuring that anyone can use it. This collaborative effort allows us to leverage the work of others, enabling us to talk about, share, and promote what everyone is doing, while we ourselves do not build anything directly. Instead, we are focused on facilitating development within the ecosystem.
Looking ahead, there is a lot happening on our 2023 roadmap. One significant expansion over the past year has been our workshops. We have recently announced an upcoming workshop titled, "How to Create a Currency Management Application and Deploy on Hyperledger Fabric Network." This workshop essentially teaches participants how to create a CBDC on Fabric and is led by the team that worked on the Banque de France's CBDC research. It is a free, hands-on workshop that spans several hours, providing a detailed, step-by-step guide.
In addition to this, we have previously conducted workshops on CBDCs and digital identity technologies, focusing on how to use Indy, Aries, and Ursa for various applications. We also offer a workshop on Bevel, a project that facilitates launching networks. There is a wealth of information available on our website for anyone interested in learning how to utilize these technologies.
Moreover, we host meetups globally. If you're in a city, you can easily find a Hyperledger X City meetup through a quick Google search, where you can connect with others, learn, and hear from speakers. We also have several special interest groups, including those focused on climate action, supply chain and trade finance, financial markets, and the public sector. Another way to engage with our community is by visiting our YouTube page, which features numerous videos related to our technologies, applicable across various industries. This resource is perfect for anyone looking to browse or dive deeper into specific topics, as we offer workshops of varying lengths.
Regarding the broader crypto ecosystem and market, particularly in relation to regulations, it’s important to note that Hyperledger does not have a token or similar asset. However, we do integrate with certain blockchains, such as Ethereum and Solana. While I personally am not worried about my life savings, the regulatory landscape certainly has a significant impact on our community. The developments in crypto regulation affect everyone involved in the space, and we remain attentive to these changes.
In a rapidly evolving crypto landscape, clarity in regulations is essential for fostering innovation and trust in blockchain technology.
The discussion begins with the acknowledgment that the organization doesn't have a token or anything along those lines, but it does integrate certain blockchains, including Ethereum, Solana, and others. The question arises whether the team is concerned or focused on the broader crypto ecosystem, particularly regarding regulations and the developments happening in the US.
In response, one participant expresses relief, stating, "Luckily, I'm not concerned in like whether I'll have my life savings or not," which prompts laughter from both. However, they recognize that the regulatory landscape has a huge impact on our community. They emphasize that whatever is happening in the crypto space regarding regulation is significant because DLT applies to everything—public or permissioned, all are considered DLTs. Thus, there aren't necessarily distinctions in regulation based on the type of DLT, which can certainly impact their ecosystem. The participant notes that it depends on who is getting involved and who is putting resources into building, as these factors can be affected by the happenings in the crypto world. Therefore, they affirm, "Yeah, we definitely pay close attention," and express a desire to connect with and support projects that aim to provide value to the overall ecosystem of building on distributed ledgers.
The conversation shifts to the SEC, Ripple XRP ruling, with the participant acknowledging that the majority of the industry views it as a big win for the market. They note the absence of comprehensive regulations from Congress but highlight the importance of clarity from the courts. The discussion touches on the notion that tokens themselves are not intrinsically securities, but rather it is how they are packaged, referencing the Howey Test—"it wasn't the oranges or the orange growth but rather how we package his investment contract."
The participant refrains from commenting on Ripple's specific actions but emphasizes the utility of having clarification on how governments and regulators define tokens and securities. They share their personal involvement from the beginning with an organization called Global Digital Finance, which was acquired by GBBC, the Global Business Blockchain Consortium, last year. They have been working on token taxonomies, and the participant contributed to the initial efforts, participating in meetings to define what a token is, the various types, and their potential uses. They express pride in being at the forefront of industry-defining mechanisms, stating, "These mechanisms didn't exist and we are defining them."
The participant reflects on the unique historical moment they are in, recognizing that everyone involved is eager to ensure there is clarity and agreement in the industry. They note that the absence of clarity creates problems for both the government and participants in the space, which is always unhelpful.
As the conversation progresses, the participant acknowledges the direction the industry is headed, suggesting that it seems everything's gonna be running on the blockchain for the most part. They reiterate the concept of a multi-chain world, where different blockchains—both permissioned and permissionless—will be utilized by various companies for different use cases. They conclude with the observation that there has been a significant amount of tokenization, indicating that this is indeed the future. They mention that over the past year, and for many years prior, banks have been involved in working on different projects and experimentations, further emphasizing the ongoing evolution within the blockchain space.
The future is all about transparency; imagine a world where every action you take shows its true impact on the environment and society.
The discussion highlights the growing importance of blockchain technology in various sectors, particularly in finance. Everything's gonna be running on the blockchain for the most part, and as mentioned, it will be a multi-chain world with different blockchains, both permissioned and permissionless. Various companies will utilize this technology for different use cases, with a significant focus on tokenization, which is seen as the future.
Over the past year, banks have increasingly engaged in projects and experiments involving Hyperledger Fabric and Hyperledger Besu to tokenize various assets. For instance, last year, Goldman Sachs collaborated with the European Investment Bank and other banks to issue a hundred million dollar digital bond using Hyperledger technology. Institutions like Santander and JP Morgan have also explored how to leverage this technology, often waiting for regulatory clarity to ensure appropriate usage. Recently, there has been a surge in interest from financial institutions, particularly regarding Central Bank Digital Currencies (CBDCs) across different jurisdictions. Notably, in June, the Central Bank of Brazil announced plans to build a CBDC on Hyperledger Besu, while Nigeria has already launched its CBDC on Hyperledger Fabric. Other countries, including Norway and France, are experimenting with these technologies, indicating a significant amount of activity in the financial sector over the last couple of years.
The conversation also touched upon the adoption of Hyperledger and its various products, which are gaining traction among some of the largest institutions globally. The excitement surrounding these developments is palpable, as the potential for growth and innovation continues to expand.
As the discussion shifted towards personal reflections, the speaker was asked about their ideal metaverse. They expressed a desire to create a multiverse that addresses the negative externalities of human actions. They emphasized that many problems arise from a lack of tangible experiences regarding the consequences of our actions. For example, it's easy to pollute when one is unaware of the pollution's impact. In this envisioned multiverse, individuals would have visibility into the full impact of their actions, fostering a deeper understanding of personal responsibility and societal engagement.
The speaker also shared insights into their personal preferences during a rapid-fire question segment. Their favorite food is sweet corn, and they admire Bob Dylan as their favorite musician. When it comes to movies, they expressed a fondness for Contact, and for books, they recommended "Winners Take All" by Anand Giridharadas, highlighting its relevance to the themes discussed regarding motivations in the global system.
In their leisure time, the speaker enjoys traveling and speaks multiple languages. They appreciate the humility that comes from experiencing different cultures and perspectives, which they find enriching.
In conclusion, the conversation was a pleasure, and there is an eagerness to continue exploring the developments within Hyperledger in future discussions.